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pricing opinion

Discussion in 'Landscape Lighting' started by Mark B, Jul 27, 2008.

  1. Mark B

    Mark B LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,020

    Ok here is the situation. I just finsihed a job where I used 4 well lights per tree. 6 trees total. I can pull 1 12ga or 1 10ga to each tree and be ok with that 1 wire per tree. So would you still get that 200per fixture price? Even though that 1 wire will work for all 4 lights.
  2. TXNSLighting

    TXNSLighting LawnSite Fanatic
    from DFW, TX
    Posts: 6,462

    no i would get $260... How else would you power those lights?? its called a hub. one wire powering the 4 lights...i must be missing something
  3. INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting

    INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,102

    Don't sell your self short.

    What is with this constant "Race to the bottom" that I read and hear about?

    Stop pricing by the fixture.
    Stop 'competitively pricing' against your 'competitors'.
    Stop racing to the bottom line.

    Instead design something unique, uncommon and remarkable, and then price it based on the value (look up the definition of value if you must) that your creative solution provides to the client.

    This race to the bottom, and worrying about function over form is going to be the end of many a lighting company.

    I hope this helps someone out there.
  4. Litewerks Expert Lighting

    Litewerks Expert Lighting LawnSite Member
    Posts: 32

    Picassos paintings are worth a ton of money and some of which took very little time to create. Thats what were doing here -painting portraits with lights.
  5. irrig8r

    irrig8r LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,535

    That's a pretty bold statement... somehow I have a feeling Picasso, Monet, Van Gogh, Renoir, Boticelli, Caravaggio, Leonardo, Michelangelo or any of the other acknowledged masters with whom you might dare to compare our work would tend to disagree...

    Artists may use paint and brushes to create an illusion of light.... While we use light to create an illusion of art... (too bad Thomas Kinkade has already trademarked the phrase "Painter of Light")
  6. JoeyD

    JoeyD LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,933

    Picasso is painting a picture in a square during his prime. A young woman walks up to him and comments on how beautiful his painting is and asks if he would mind painting her portrait. He says "of course", so the woman sits down and Picaso goes to work. After about 10 minutes he says he is finished and shows the woman his portrait of her. She is amazed and asks how much she owes him.......he says "$10K", and she says "$10k? but it only took you 10 minutes".......And he replies back, "no it took me my whole life."
  7. Litewerks Expert Lighting

    Litewerks Expert Lighting LawnSite Member
    Posts: 32

    Would that be a valid comparison for us lighting guys? It was more about stating that you cant base pricing on how long it takes, or how few runs have to be installed, but base it on your knowledge, and skills. Thats after all why a customer is paying you to install his lights.
  8. JoeyD

    JoeyD LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,933

    The customer should be highering you for your experience, your skill, your ethics, your reputation and the feeling you are going to create with lights. In return you should be selling them on these qualities. Otherwise you are just selling lights and materials.

    This is a big reason we have always stressed installers to stop condsidering themselves Contractors who isnstall but rather consider themselves designers that also install. You should be selling an effect or a feeling and not materials.......
  9. David Gretzmier

    David Gretzmier LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,645

    good night guys, tell him how you really feel !!

    To answer his question ( like majestic did, thank you ) It depends on the wire run from the trans to each tree, which you neglected to include. If I am 100 feet or less from the trans, then 200 per fixture for 4 lights( simple uplights)at each tree is fine to charge the customer. as far as guage of wire, if each light is 20 watts, then at 80 watts and 100 feet, you are fine at 12 guage. if you have 35 watts each, you are looking at a 3 volt drop at 12guage and probably need to bump up to 10 guage above 100feet, and maybe 8 guage if you get closer to 200ft away from trans. I've done many tall tree uplights with 50 watt mr-16's, and that get's into 2 runs of 10 guage, more bucks, so be sure to measure, as trees can eat wire like crazy. I'd bump up the price as you get further than 100 feet from the trans, or as watts go up. timewise you'll be taking longer and costwise more bucks too. I'd be at 220 per fixture at 125 feet, 250 per fixture at 150, etc.

    at 6 trees, 4 lights per tree, 200 bucks per fixture, 4800 bucks is a pretty good sum for a homeowner to spend to make 6 trees look good. We could get into "art" and climb the tree and do some really cool effects, and maybe charge more, but the reality is 95% of the folks I deal with would be happy with 4 well placed uplights. the other 5% I climb.
  10. The Lighting Geek

    The Lighting Geek LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 875

    I think what you charge has a lot to do with which fixture you are using as well. I would charge no less than 250 per fixture these days as a general rul

    I had to think about the discussions concerning fixture price and I agree with James. After having been in the business for over 25 years, I do things that I would not recommend for a newer person. Part of that is just knowing my market, business, etc. I do price myself by the fixture, but I generally have the job before costs come into the conversation. They do hire me for my expertise and quality of work. I don't sell fixtures, I sell portraits. I use the fixture price because it helps with phasing jobs and ease of billing.

    I do not recommend selling by the fixture price. Does that make sense?

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