Q for Parbies

Discussion in 'Landscape Lighting' started by Mike M, Dec 24, 2007.

  1. Mike M

    Mike M LawnSite Bronze Member
    from usa
    Posts: 1,941

    That's what I figured. The ABS composites are better, but in realty, those 125's are fine. I also understand that a warranty is a part of a marketing expression; i.e., how do you sell those 225's to me if they have the same warrenty as the 125's? But why not make the 225's lifetime and the 125's 15? The reason I ask, is that I'm using the same marketing/warranty angle with my customers, and I don't want to say: those staked fixtures are lifetime, and the wells are all 5 years. See? For the end consumer, I have to present the well with the brass, not one well to another.

    If I go with copper fixtures at 15 years, it still sounds silly to say 5 years on the wells. Did you make the wells to go with Kichler and Vista powder coat fixtures? I doubt it. Are you saying Unique makes a fixture in the same longevity class as the aluminum?

    I'm just saying it's a big jump from 5 to lifetime. Or 5 to 15 years. 5 sucks. The whole point of the economic well for me is to lower the average fixture cost, maiking the awesome brass fixtures more accessible. But my idea won't work with a huge disparity in warranty language in my proposal to the prospect.

    If the best response to me is to avoid the 125's and go with 225's, I'm okay with that. I like the adjustable steel gimbal anyway. But why would you even make the 125?

    Don't take me too seriously, I'm a low-volume rookie.

    Thanks,

    Mike M.
     
  2. Pro-Scapes

    Pro-Scapes LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,181

    Mike your confusing yourself. with your coastal enviorment you need to use the best stuff you can. Stainless... brass and copper. Stop trying to cut corners with entry level fixtures and offer your clients something special and price it accordingly.

    There might very well be times you need to offer something more economical especially just starting out but beware of it and make sure the client is well aware of any short commings on econmy fixture prices.
     
  3. Mike M

    Mike M LawnSite Bronze Member
    from usa
    Posts: 1,941

    Billy,

    Excellent point.

    Even so, if 19 out of 42 fixtures are wells, what's wrong with composite PVC as opposed to ABS? I think the 125's are indifferent to the sea locale, but I could be wrong.

    The term cost-effective doesn't necessarily mean inferior, just more efficient for the money. In fact, the whole reason I consider the 125's is to make the slick lifetime brass fixtures more attainable for every job.

    Now, this is all just theory, if someone has failures in the field with those 125's, like gimbals melting, or PVC housing issues, then let me know.

    Is the difference between the ABS composite and PVC composite truly a longevity issue for landscape lighting, especially when using 35 watt PARS not covered in glass?? Or is it just a marketing issue?

    It seems strange for Unique to produce a "5-year" product. Against company philosophy. Unless, of course, they are planning on a new line of cheap crappy products.

    Mikey
     
  4. Pro-Scapes

    Pro-Scapes LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,181

    your still confusing yourself

    When you say more attainable on the brass fixtures your obviously trying to make things more affordable by cutting costs someplace. You shouldnt do this. If your going to install a top quality brass fixture with a lifetime warranty why compliment it with a sewer drain pipe and a rubber "gimble" in it and why not use something that compliments the quality of what your using. The cost will be of little factor really when you consider it. The labor certainly wont change and your overhead wont change. Its not like the cheaper well light installs itself saving you money.

    Price the job with the better quality. Your clients will never ever be upset you watched out for them in the long run.

    I want you to close your eyes... imagine stainless steel in one hand and rubber in the other. Which would you choose. Dont make the wrong decision for your clients to save them 30 bucks a fixture. If they are willing to spend on a f125 chances are they will spend on a f225
     
  5. Mike M

    Mike M LawnSite Bronze Member
    from usa
    Posts: 1,941

    Billy I can't close my eyes, every time I do today I pass out from too much beer and champagne and staying up late and getting up early with kids.

    Did you install any aluminum this year? Couldn't I say the same thing?

    Alright forget it, I'd rather have the adjustable features anyways. But why in heck do they have the PVC composite, just to mess with my head?
     
  6. seolatlanta

    seolatlanta LawnSite Member
    Posts: 176

    Hey Mike

    I have done some extremely high end homes in Savannah literally 50 feet from salt water. I have used hundreds of the F 125 there as well as mr 16s and 1141s . The problem with pars melting is 100% to do with the fixture being covered with straw or mulch.

    Make sure to use plenty of grease on each connection esp at the terminals at the bottom of the lamp. I grew up in Savannah and lived there for 25 years. the salt always wins. Make sure your maintenance is 2x a year and give a warranty that is suitable for you and the homeowner.

    Not trying to butt in , just my .02.
     
  7. Chris J

    Chris J LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,806

    This I have a problem with. If it should last forever, then back it up with a warranty that says that.
     
  8. Mike M

    Mike M LawnSite Bronze Member
    from usa
    Posts: 1,941

    Chris, this is what I'm talking about. I'm speculating that since the 100's are cheaper than the ABS composite with steel gimbal, they feel compelled to separate the two warrenties for marketing reasons. Otherwise, all I can figure is the heat issue caused by poor installation, with possibility of the PVC melting if covered with a lens or matched up with a hot bulb.
     
  9. Mike M

    Mike M LawnSite Bronze Member
    from usa
    Posts: 1,941

    Here's a q, since PAR bulbs are sealed and don't need to be contained inside little oven-like fixtures, why not make an ABS composite version of something like the big bang with those brass or steel hardware?
     
  10. Pro-Scapes

    Pro-Scapes LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,181

    theres a difference mike... im 80 miles inland. Your speaking of saltwater front homes.

    In 2 and only 2 cases have I used alluminum this year. 1 was a budget job for a friend of my wifes where I used AZT bullets and copper paths to come in at her budget.

    the 2nd was a partial rework of an existing system where the lights were 2 years old and other than water spots were FINE and the client asked me to reuse and bring in matching new AZT's.

    There will be a 3rd instance next month where I will be installing 2 BK shastas which are also marine grade alluminum. If you were to choose alluminum where your at you better make sure you get the best from hk... bk...vision3 etc... you would be much better off cost wise to use brass and copper unique or bronze casts in your situation.

    As for the wells take it from Dave H if he has installed that many coastal and make sure your installation techniques are superior. Bad installation or maint will eat up a fixture just as fast as enviorment will
     

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