Quick pricing question

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by DynaMow, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. DynaMow

    DynaMow LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 570

    50 x 16 paver driveway, brick shaped pavers. driveway is wavy due to vehicle traffic. need to pull up pavers (in good shape) level, repack, sand, and relay pavers. Looks pretty straight forward.

    Looking for some ideal of what others would charge?
     
  2. mbella

    mbella LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,284

    Did you do the original install?
     
  3. UNISCAPER

    UNISCAPER LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,426

    Mike asks a very valid question because had you done the original install, you will know the underlying circumstances. There could be one issue however. If you have bad soils under all the gravel, you have to dig it all out and go deeper with base to help stabilize the driveway. Some of those redo projects cost as much as laying the whole thing over because you have breakage when you pull the old out, and, you have all that doing over of the base.
     
  4. mbella

    mbella LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,284

    Bill, exactly. These jobs are anything but simple. The problem could be with the bedding layer. Screenings tend to promote "rutting." If that was the cause here, it could be a simple matter of removing the screenings, installing coarse concrete sand and pavers.

    However, I would put my money on unsuitable subsoil being the culprit. In that case, it's anything but simple. Sure, you can estimate your time to remove pavers, bedding layer and the base aggregate, but you have no idea what type of subsoil you will encounter.

    I would approach it in the following manner. Prepare a proposal for all of the knowns. Knowns= time to remove pavers, bedding layer, base aggregate, reinstall base aggregate, bedding layer, pavers.

    Estimate the unknowns, but don't give a firm price. Unknowns=finding suitable subsoil (basing back to the bedding layer elevation if suitable subsoil isn't encountered at the typical depth) and replacement of pavers that don't survive removal.

    I can't tell you how many repairs I have estimated where the homeowner is SHOCKED because my repair number is equal to or greater than the original install price. Who cares? It is what it is.
     
  5. mbella

    mbella LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,284

    I would like to add to my last post. My personal rule regarding these repairs, or any job is I won't do it unless I will warranty the work.

    For example: Last year, I met with a couple that were attempting to sell their home, but needed the hardscape repaired. It was a mess. They wanted me to pull the existing pavers, add sand and replace pavers. Well, I pulled some pavers, did a few test digs and determined that the problem was with the subsoil. These people didn't care. They wanted it to look good for about a month. That's it.

    I told them no way. My trucks would be in front of the house and we would be associated with the hardscape. If the new homeowners had problems in a year or two, they would ask the neighbors if they knew who did the work. Certainly, we would be mentioned and held responsible, at least to the homeowner. Maybe, I'm crazy, but I wouldn't do it.
     
  6. Drafto

    Drafto LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 442

    Great points Mike. I can admit I am usually in over my head most of the time, but I have been on 3 estimates that wanted to repair older stuff. I investigated, and priced it as new, or more than new in one case, the customers could not believe it and told me, and I quote, "if we wanted to PAY for a new patio, we wouldn't be having the old one fixed". I walked on all 3 of the estimates. I think the only reason I keep "repair" in my marketing is b/c it is just that, marketing. If I hear "repair" on the phone, I try my best to let them know usually it is not an easy or cheap fix before anyones time get wasted.

    Dan
     
  7. DynaMow

    DynaMow LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 570

    no i did not do original.
    you make some good points on those following posts. I am going to attack in the manner you described. i am looking for some numbers though, before the variables.

    craig
     
  8. XXL Hardscaper

    XXL Hardscaper LawnSite Member
    Posts: 37

    This would be no different than pricing any other Hardscape project :Labor-Additional Materials-OH-Profit. I would definitely figure in time to do sub soil testing.In my 11 years I have done my fair share of repair work to projects done by others. 9 times out of 10 the repairs were due to sub standard sub soil prep or sub standard base compaction. In my area for driveways ( due to very clay type soils) I use a 4"layer of #2 stone then a layer of mirafi500x the 12-14" of crusher run compacted in 4" lifts with a 10,000# roller then bedding sand then pavers. On driveway jobs I also price in to have my compaction tested to insure I reach that optimal compaction of 95% proctor. Most likely you will find there is no geotextile fabric separating the sub soil from the base and the sinking is due to the base migrating into the sub soil.
    Just my 2 cents , hope it helps.

    P.S. Hello everyone , New to the board.
     
  9. Drafto

    Drafto LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 442

    I am just curious as to the purpose of the 4" of #2 stone? If you are in clay soil and there is no fabric between the #2 stone and the soil, won't this just migrate down like any other stone? I guess it just seems like wasted material and labor to me. Everything else sounds right, I am just suprised of that extra step.

    Dan
     
  10. XXL Hardscaper

    XXL Hardscaper LawnSite Member
    Posts: 37

    This by no means is an ICPI spec, It is just the way I prefer to do it. For 8 years before I got into this buisness I worked for a Large Excavation company. This was how we constructed every parking lot and road in Maryland and Virginia that were red and yellow clay soils. The #2 stone is not that expensive and it really doesnt add that much labor time to install and compact. The #2 stone when compacted on clay (as long as the moisture levels are ok) really tightens up the top surface of the clay. It also helps when you are installing your 1st lift of crusher run because you have a tighter surface under your fabric. JMO
     

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