Save The Scag - It is Now Toast - Literally

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by pjm123a, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. Darryl G

    Darryl G LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 8,033

    The bright side of this all is that you're going to know that machine from front to back and top to bottom when you're all done.
     
  2. White Gardens

    White Gardens LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,776

    One thing I would suggest doing is getting an evacuator when you fill the hydro system.

    This will ensure that you've purged the system of any air and minimize the risk of any damage on initial start up.

    [​IMG]






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  3. pjm123a

    pjm123a LawnSite Member
    from FL
    Posts: 141

    Hi White Gardens - Could you please expand a bit on your use of the evacuator? I have one. I use it to change the engine oil in my jet skis since there is no way to drain it. So I am familiar with using the evacuator to remove fluid. Are you saying to use it when refilling?


    Thank You
     
  4. pjm123a

    pjm123a LawnSite Member
    from FL
    Posts: 141

    Ok, I turned the air blue with all my wailing and gnashing but I finally got the first hydro pump off the donor and it is sitting on my workbench. The part that gave me all the trouble is removing from the bottom of the mower what SCAG calls

    12 482085 Hub, Tapered, 15mm Bore

    It is number 12 in the attached diagram. Since I have another to do I am asking if there are any tricks to this. I know about removing the screws and using them in the other holes so the screws force the hub off. This worked until the hub was almost completely off then it seemed to get stuck and the threads on the screw stripped. Since the screws were just spinning freely at that point they could not exert any pressure so that method was just not going to work. I ended up using a chisel to widen the slot in the side of the hub and with a little more cussing finally got it off. I am replacing the screws and the hub because I have no confidence in them after I saw the screws stripped. What did I do wrong? Also how do you hold the pulley while you try to get the hub off? I must be missing something!

    diag1.jpg
     
  5. pjm123a

    pjm123a LawnSite Member
    from FL
    Posts: 141

    Trying to answer my own question. Below is one description. I did not try the banging between tightening part. I will try that on the other one.

    How do you remove the deck pulley on a scag 61inch?

    Answer:
    Remove the 2 bolts(should be 1/4 bolts) on top of the deck pulley, screw them in the threaded holes next to where they just came from(spray a little oil on them also), and start tightening them little by little, alternating from one to the other. they will get extremely tight, when they get like that I take a large diameter punch and put as close to the center of the pulley under the bushing your screws are screwed into and give it 2-3 hard smacks with a hammer. Then continue screwing the small bolts again, the bolts will eventually push the pulley off of the tapered bushing. to remove the bushing tap a small flat blade screwdriver into the split on the end and pull it off
     
  6. Breezmeister

    Breezmeister LawnSite Bronze Member
    Male, from South Jersey
    Posts: 1,490

    This is just like taking the pulleys off of a Lesco. What I do is spray them down and let it soak for 1/2 hour.

    Then start working on turning the bolts in. These should be Gr 5 or Gr 8 bolts. as you make a turn, take a hammer and "tap" in 4 places on the pulley. Remember, these pulleys are cast iron and will break if hit too hard. Keep doing this with each turn of the bolts until the pulley pops off.

    That was the easy part ;) Take a screw driver and as close to the shaft as you can get tap it in at the split. Spray some PB Blaster in there or what ever you use. Go have a smoke or a beer, give it time to work.

    Take your hammer and hit the tapered bushing, hit the screw driver, hit the bushing, repeat. If you get lucky, once the hub moves, you should be able to slide the hub off the shaft.

    If not, you will need to use a puller...

    Worst case, if you break the lip around the edge where you can not get the puller on the hub...... I have had to take my cut off grinder, split the other side and using a chisel, split the hub in half.

    Between moisture and chemicals from the lawn, these hubs will "weld" them selves to the shaft

    Good Luck
     
  7. Richard Martin

    Richard Martin LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 14,700

    You didn't do anything wrong. The error was made when the parts were assembled. A dab of anti-seize does wonders for getting parts that may become rusted together, back apart. If they had put anti-seize on it then you wouldn't have had anywhere near the trouble getting it back apart.

    I've only ever seen one mower company use anti-seize and that was Gravely. I had a 1997 Pro 50 walk behind and had to replace the tranny. I was dreading trying to get the pulley off of the input shaft without destroying it. I popped the circlip off and the pulley literally fell off. They had put anti-seize on it at the factory.

    BTW, I use a whole lot of anti-seize. If I have to run a steel bolt into aluminum it gets either anti-seize or Loctite. It may seem like the use of Loctite would make it harder to get the bolt back out but it doesn't. Once you get the bolt to turn then they come out nice and easy. The Loctite prevents corrosion from forming in the steel to aluminum threads. You want to use Loctite Blue 242. It's the easiest to break loose.
     
  8. dboyd351

    dboyd351 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,099

    Never heard a truer statement!!!
    Right on, Richard !!Thumbs Up
     
  9. Roger

    Roger LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 5,917

    I found this on another forum frequented by those doing mechanical projects, FWIW. I have no experience with these suggestions, just passing along the post for elsewhere, info that might be useful in this project. (The post should be ft-pounds, not just pounds - the measurements are torque.)

    +++++++++++++++++

    Machinist's Workshop Mag recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.


    Penetrating oils Average torque to loosen

    No Oil used ................... 516 pounds

    WD-40 ...................... ... 238 pounds

    PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds

    Liquid Wrench ...............127 pounds

    Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds

    ATF.................................53 pounds

    Power Steering Fluid.........51 pounds

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Somebody else chimed in saying that he has used ATF and Acetone (1:1) for over 20 years, ... best penetrating oil he found.
     
  10. pjm123a

    pjm123a LawnSite Member
    from FL
    Posts: 141

    Whoever said experience is the best teacher sure knew what he was talking about. Having done it once and using some of the advice given I got the second pump out much easier with no wailing and gnashing. From start to end was less than an hour with no broken parts or messed up bolts. No cutting or prying was necessary. The two main things I did different:

    First, took off completely the 2 bolts that hold the pump onto the frame. This is a pain because the head of the bolt has to be held to take off the nut (which is on top). The head of this bolt is under the pulley (between the pulley and the bottom of the frame). I was able to wedge a thin stubby wrench in there (9/16) and it held the bolt while I took off the nut. This is tough and you have to do it twice (once for each bolt). The thinner your wrench the better. By taking the bolts off you can drive the pump up as you tap on the bottom. Just loosening them as I did before simply does not give the pump much travel so you do not get the maximum benefit from your tapping.

    Second as the pulley begins to come down the shaft you will find that your bolts are not long enough. Rather than looking for longer bolts, wedge successfully larger objects (i used chisels - that is what the green thing is in the picture) to keep the pulley from being forced up as the bolts do their work. Back out the bolts and let the pulley fall. Wedge in your object and crank on the bolts again. Keep doing this when your bolts bottom out.

    Also, it is important to work evenly. Can't let the hub get cocked in there. Keep alternating bolts. If this is done correctly the hub and pulley will literally fall off eventually and nothing will be broken or dinged up. It really was amazing how smoothly the second one went.

    The first pump is now sitting in it's new home.

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