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Selling muddy water

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by GreenthumbGA, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. GreenthumbGA

    GreenthumbGA LawnSite Member
    Posts: 191

    Ran into a guy a couple of days ago at my nursery. He was trying to set his product on the shelf of our place. When he brought out the bottle(Used 2liter) one of my eyebrows went up. It was a handrawn worm and some writing on it. He began to try to give his speal about how good it was and this and that. I could see through the water in the bottle and really felt he was doing the stuff an injustice. I began to ask him some questions about brewing, how long it had been bottled up, what he fed his worms and such and such. He kind of slinked back. I felt bad after a few minutes of talking to him cause I was in front of the owner and not making this guy look or feel real good. So I backed off and we went and talked off to the side.

    I really feel that more of this would be accepted in the communities if people get the right taste in there mouth for it. A bottle of watered down castings is not gonna hurt a plant. Will actually do it some good with the nutrients and all. But a batch of quality tea will make a customer beg you for some more.
    If a customer takes a leap of faith and listens to a crazy worm farming orgo freak and tries his stuff, and nothing really happens, then that makes me have to work all the more to educate my community because I have to restore respect and trust in the organic industry.

    Any way.......I guess if you are not promoting it as AACT then you are not in the wrong.

    But if you do not know the difference, do it make it right.

    this is more of a rant for conversation sake than a raising of a flag.... have at it.
  2. treegal1

    treegal1 LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,911

    hey have a spine and tell the people that are wrong that they are, you would not set idly by and let an old lady get mugged, i would hurt or at least stop the assailant. and lets let go of this PC bull $h*t call it as you see it and be a man or woman and stick up for your self's and others.

    there's my rant

    go start brewing and let the begging begin
  3. NattyLawn

    NattyLawn LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,643

    Good points, and with the rush for people to start organics this season, expect a lot more fly by night products to hit the market. As a potential customer, you asked all of the right questions. No need to feel bad about that. If they can't answer or provide test results, don't buy it. Buyer beware.
  4. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,081

    Liquid castings and aact tea are 2 different things. Castings in the garden may very well make a difference.[Containing nutrients and such] Tea activates the soil bio. and will be useful as long as there is an adequate amount of OM available for it to transform.

    Liquid castings has been popular for years, as an organic houseplant fertilizer.
  5. treegal1

    treegal1 LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,911

    very true, grandma had a recipe that kicked butt, orchids were here thing, had them hanging around the yard, ands would get bait worms feed them bread and pete moss. till they were separated from there "solids" she would say, the worms got set free and the "solids" were mixed and used like water from the fountain of youth. nice child hood memories.....that and cake.
  6. GreenthumbGA

    GreenthumbGA LawnSite Member
    Posts: 191

    that is all good if the castings are used right away, or soon. Bottled up, and carried around in your truck for however long, would brew up some heavy anerobicness(like my new word...) This coming from the tea expert himself (eyes all across america roll).:dizzy:
  7. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,081

    I too would be more comfortable with dry, but you can't get the dispersion correct that way. Perhaps it could be liquidfied on site. Got room for a blender in your truck? :)

    Now I heard in one of these threads that worms have mycorrizae fungi in their gut and that castings can be used to move the AM fungi around.
    If that is true, my question would be - can the AM fungi survive a liquid dormancy? I have some juice here that claims AM and it is good till Dec. 2010.
  8. TMGL&L

    TMGL&L LawnSite Member
    Posts: 243

    How exactly does this dormancy work? Commercial tea products for example...How can the tea be loaded with microbiology if it has been bottled already and shipped. Shouldn't all the critters inside be dead if there isn't any O2 left? How long can mycorrizae and other benificial life live on average when all bottled up? Is this still considered AACT?

    On that same vein, do microorganisms go dormant in soil when it goes bad? (from synthetics for example) Is it possible that lawns fertilized with chems have dormant microbes deep in the soil ready to be awakened by water and food?

    I'm just wondering how this works.
  9. GreenthumbGA

    GreenthumbGA LawnSite Member
    Posts: 191

    Bill from ICT says his product has put the good guys to sleep. One bottle of sleeping good guys, one bottle of alarm clock and one little bottle of "just in case". I have read in one of the threads a discussion about this subject where is got to the point that someone asked bill how he put's the good guys to sleep. He said that it was a "secret" more or less and moved on.

    I do wonder.......because if you put the good guys to sleep, and take away the air, the bad guys (anerobes) have run of the place. I guess you would have to just stop the whole process all together. Like taking a picture.

    I am in no position to talk about it's effectiveness. I have some but I am setting up some experiments as we speak. We can talk about this stuff all day long but people need to see results.

    I have no clue about the second question. I read today in Dr. Inghams paper online that bacteria are very tough cookies.

    "There is no evidence that bacteria die of old age in the soil. Bacteria will become dormant, go-to-sleep, when conditions become too poor for continued growth. They don’t die unless a disturbance occurs that kills them. Otherwise, they have mechanisms for surviving tough times" http://www.soilfoodweb.com/03_about_us/approach.html

    Of course old age is different than being affected by chems..

    some one will probably chime in.
  10. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,115

    I just heard a story coming back from the airport on NPR radio, a 62 million year old tirannosuars (sp?) rex that was uncovered had recoverable biology. They DNA sequenced it and it came up "BIRD" the darn stuff has just been hang'n out for 62 million years

    Most Bacteria and Fungi (and others) go into a spore form that is almost an imperiable state, they hang out in that state until the environment is right for them to procreate and reproduce. They can then reporduce at an amazing rate of doubling their numbers every 20 minutes (bacteria). This is not a linear thing this is out right gazillions in a very short time frame with no checks and balances

    There are techniques to take biology and make them go into a spore form, how long are they viable? It depends on the species and the environment that they are in.

    I have asked the question many times to people more learned than I, how long will mycorrhizae last? I have heard 3 to 4 months and I have heard 3 to 4 years, the answer is always...............YES!, it depends

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