Smoking B&S 7HP Intek on Snapper - help?

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by Al Bondigas, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. Al Bondigas

    Al Bondigas LawnSite Member
    Posts: 10

    Howdy all,

    Hoping someone here can help me diagnose and let me decide whether I've been hoodwinked, bamboozled or otherwise foolishly wasted my money on a used Snapper Hi Vac push mower.

    Engine is a B&S 7HP OHV Intek

    Mower is a P217018BV - The engine is a Model 128602, Type 0149E1, Engine Code 041001FB

    Here's my problem. It burns oil, seriously offending the senses and the neighbors. This mower white-blue cloud generating machine.

    Oddly, it seems to enjoy pointing downhill, and makes almost no smoke when you tilt the mower forward by picking up on the handle. (Although this is a neat trick, my yard is not completely downhill, so I'd like understand and remedy the problem.)

    Manuals state that this mower has the cast iron cylinder sleeve, and I'm hoping that it's not destined for the graveyard too soon. (It was purchased new in 4/05)

    To me, the oil does not smell like gasoline, however changing the oil (draining & filling with 30W as manual recommends) did not help the problem, and running the mower for only a few minutes resulted in the "new" oil looking just the same as the old, (I did not see any particulate in the oil when I drained the old).

    Previous owner told me that it was possibly overfilled by the maintenance shop and that it would burn off and be OK, but it's apparent that is not happening. It fogs the yard when running (intermittently acting fine - especially when mowing downhill).

    It was also suggested to me to check the breather - not much to check there - and it looks fine, not stuck, or filled with oil, etc. In addition, the air filter and foam sock covering the filter are clean, not oil soaked.

    The previous owner also told me that it was checked out at a shop before I bought it, and that the compression was perfectly fine. (I take that with a grain of salt, since he also told me that it only smoked some of the time - perhaps he meant "only when running")

    Since the previous owner is NOT interested in taking this beast back (private party "gotcha" sale) - I'm stuck with her. She cuts wonderfully and the hi-vac works great. So I'm hoping it's not a lost cause.

    Obviously oil is getting into this to be burned, could it be a head gasket? Cylinder wall scored? Broken ring? Something else?

    Thoughts, questions? Straight talk is fine, I already know the story about the fool and his money...

    Thanks in advance,

    Al
     
  2. Landrus2

    Landrus2 LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,833

    Do not waist another cent on this engine get your self a new motor.:waving:
     
  3. topsites

    topsites LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 21,653

    I remember my first year, or actually the year before that, I bought a similar machine, that is, in about the same condition.

    I took it all in stride, the money I spent on it I chalked up to experience, then re-sold the machine for about half what I paid for it, and someone else hopefully went on to learn something from it.

    How that works?
     
  4. Roger

    Roger LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 5,927

    Are you sure the crankcase isn't overfilled with oil? I know you said you changed it. Was it changed just one time since '05 after it was bought? I don't think you said how long you have used it. How many times have you run it with the smoking problem?
     
  5. MowerMedic77

    MowerMedic77 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,164

    If you let it run on a flat surface without going up and down your hills this mower will still smoke?
     
  6. Bill Kapaun

    Bill Kapaun LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 923

    O this engine, you screw in the dipstick. Did you use that method, or just insert the dip stick without screwing it down?
    I'd re-check the oil level after it's sat undisturbed for a few hours. I know on my mower, it seems to take forever for the oil to drain down.
     
  7. Al Bondigas

    Al Bondigas LawnSite Member
    Posts: 10

    Guys, thanks for the replies already - this site is a great resource.

    joesimoes2 - I've considered replacing the motor, but I haven't put a dime towards it since the initial (poorly chosen?) purchase. What did I describe that makes you think it's a lost cause?

    topsites - you said you had a similar machine - spent some money on it and passed it down the food chain - what did you find wrong with it?

    Roger - the other owner had it serviced before each mowing season, I could contact the shop to see if they have any records (Monday). He was rather "particular" about the mower - I have a booklet that had all the manuals and he highlighted in the maintenance manual to change the oil ever 25 hours. He also highlighted the picture showing which direction to pour the oil out. He had all the model numbers recorded in the blanks, along with purchase date, etc. Did not seem like the type who would have neglected maintenance. I could be dead wrong though.

    MM77 - It would still smoke intermittently and heavy even when flat on the concrete driveway. This was also right after a carefully measured oil change to ensure I didn't overfill. Tipping alternately in any direction it would either smoke worse, (nose up, and side to side) or would stop smoking (nose down, picking up on handle) - Seemed very odd to me - but what do I know - I bought it in the first place!

    Bill - yes, checked level with cap screwed down snug. I was careful to measure it out, pour it in and let it settle before checking the level. Manual states, "Place engine level. Add about 5/8 quart (20 ounces) new oil. Fill to FULL line on dipstick. DO NOT OVERFILL."

    I should also restate - after the oil change and then test running briefly, the new oil looked as dirty as the old oil I had just drained. Seemed like it got dirtied up pretty fast. It also used quite a bit of oil in a short amount of time.

    I plan to tear into it tomorrow with a more experienced wrench to assist - Is there something in particular I should be looking for?

    Thanks again,
    Al
     
  8. Al Bondigas

    Al Bondigas LawnSite Member
    Posts: 10

    Guys, thanks for the replies already - this site is a great resource.

    joesimoes2 - I've considered replacing the motor, but I haven't put a dime towards it since the initial (poorly chosen?) purchase. What did I describe that makes you think it's a lost cause?

    topsites - you said you had a similar machine - spent some money on it and passed it down the food chain - what did you find wrong with it?

    Roger - the other owner had it serviced before each mowing season, oil change, tune up, blade sharpened, etc. I could contact the shop to see if they have any records (Monday). He was rather "particular" about the mower - He had all the booklets to give me and he had highlighted in the maintenance manual to change the oil every 25 hours. He had also highlighted the picture showing which direction to pour the oil out. He did not seem like the type who would have neglected maintenance. I could be dead wrong though.

    I purchased it in early January, did not change oil at that time. I mowed with it once in early Feb., mostly to suck up leaves with the hi-vac, I ran it for about 45 minutes total time. It ran ok, but smoked. By the time I finished, the oil was down to the add level on the dipstick. I frowned a LOT.

    I called the previous owner right away to check in - he didn't want to talk to me, and suggested I take it to a shop. His story about the smoking changed, and he stated it had smoked "a little" for the past year. I frowned even more.

    MM77 - Even when flat on a concrete driveway it still smokes. Tested that theory right after a carefully measured 30W oil change to ensure I didn't overfill. Tipping alternately in any direction it would still smoke, (nose up, and side to side) or would stop smoking (nose down, picking up on handle) - Seemed very odd to me - but what do I know - I bought it in the first place, at night, without trying it out. (yeah, I'm still learning...)

    Bill - yes, checked oil level with cap screwed down snug. During the change I was careful to measure it out, pour it in and let it settle before topping it off. As the manual states, "Place engine level. Add about 5/8 quart (20 ounces) new oil. Fill to FULL line on dipstick. DO NOT OVERFILL." (the original owner didn't highlight that in the maintenance book)

    I should also restate - after the oil change and then test running briefly (5-10 minutes), the new oil looked as dirty as the old oil I had just drained. Seemed like it got dirty pretty fast. It also used quite a bit of oil in 45 minutes of time -during that February mow.

    I plan to tear into it tomorrow with a more experienced wrench to assist - Is there something in particular I should be looking for?

    Thanks again,
    Al
     
  9. Jay Ray

    Jay Ray LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,510

    I bought almost the same Snapper brand new: P217017BV 7hp Intek 128602 0149E1 040430FA.

    Started to smoke exactly like Al's Snapper about a month or two out of warranty, but it had rough duty. I couldn't describe the smoke any better than Al did. It is not economical to repair the motor. Mine is in the scrapyard but I kept the Briggs manual and had written the numbers above in it. Good thing.

    Do a search with keywords: Snapper crankshaft.

    One of the threads that comes up has the title, "Big crank for a push mower." A few posts down you will see a dimensional drawing of the crankshaft on this motor, thanks to Restorob.

    Still you need to measure the crank to be sure it is 25mm, and there should be enough of the Woodruff key sticking out of the drive pulley to get the width on that. The long keyslot for the blade adapter is 1/4 wide but measure that also. A vernier caliper is the easiest way to get the measurements. The lower Woodruff keyslot is under the blade adapter and is unused, would not matter if it was not there.

    So you now have some info on finding out what size crankshaft you need.

    Now it gets even better.:) Small Engine Warehouse still has the 6.75 hp engine that I bought to replace mine with and the price is $110 plus shipping. I don't miss the 1/4 hp and am still jumping up and down happy with the performance. I just bought a new bagger so maybe I should buy a spare engine too!!! It is a take-off test engine from Husqvarna company, but who cares! SEW stock number 121602-0349-TO 6.75 hp Briggs

    smallenginewarehouse.com

    I can't guarantee that you will be as pleased as I have been, but there is what I did to solve the same problem economically.
     
  10. Al Bondigas

    Al Bondigas LawnSite Member
    Posts: 10

    That might be a good way out of this mess.

    I missed an opportunity to purchase another Snapper locally on Craigslist for $70 - the owner had a problem with the throttle cable - can't guarantee his motor was any better than mine - but then I'd have had another whole mower for resale - letting someone else learn my lesson. (Nah, couldn't do it - I told the previous owner that I couldn't resell it in good conscience - maybe another reason he didn't want to talk to me anymore!)

    Al
     

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