Snapshot and Thistle

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by Shady Brook, Oct 10, 2004.

  1. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Posts: 1,517

    I put down alot of Snapshot in beds this year. I noticed that I still had a great deal of thistle. I had "assumed" that it prevented germination in thistle. I just looked at a label, and did not see Canadian or Bull thistle on the label for any rate of ussage. :cry:

    Does anyone know of a pre-em that will control thistle, and can be used in residencial beds?

    Thanks
    Jay
     
  2. GroundKprs

    GroundKprs LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,969

    If you have Canadian thistle established in a bed, it is coming up from an underground stem. No pre-em will help you - need to work on it over a couple of years with a post emergent. Stem runs about 9" underground, and pulling shoots just breaks them off, and new shoots will come up. Concentrated effort with Roundup over a 2 year period will usually clean it up.
     
  3. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Posts: 1,517

    Jim

    Your the best! There was a great deal of Thistle in these beds, and my Customer tried to control some by homeowner chemicals, and some pulling. I sprayed what I saw later with Roundup. When the outbreak occured again I could not tell if it was existing plants that he pulled, or things I did not fully kill, or new plants from seed that the pre-em did not handle. I know from other posts you have made that Thistle is a project, and there is not always a quick fix. Will the Snapshot have any effect on it in the future, or can I figure that after killing the plants off over time, it will prevent seed from ever being deposited in those locations?

    Thanks a bunch
    Jay
     
  4. kickin sum grass

    kickin sum grass LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 628

    pretty much expect to clean it up with post control. Pre control will do little to nothing. As stated before it may take years to get it under control. But do not be fooled, as soon as you think it is under control it will pop back up. I had a job at a local business that was over run with thistle. The first year I went in the thistle was 2' tall or more. I pulled it all out and waited until I saw it regrow. I then checked it and sprayed it weekly or as needed while I was there cutting. By the end of the second year there was hardly any coming back and the maintenance was very little. The begining of the third year the people decided I done such a good job that it no longer needed attention and upkeep. By the end of that year it looked just like it did before I started. Then they tried to get me to do it again and I said see ya.
    Moral of the story, expect to keep after these guys for a very long long time. Keep and eye out and treat as soon as new comes up.
     
  5. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Posts: 1,517

    Hey Jim, while I have your attention.

    Do you know of any fungus that might be occuring now in a non irrigated area. I have seen evidence of decline in many spots in the back of a yard a mow, but do not Fertilize. It has been dry for quite a while so I did not suspect a fungus, but it looks similar to necrotic ring spot. They are patches separated by a couple feet to maybe 8 feet apart, and are about 12" or so in diameter. Do you know of any critters that might do damage similar to this?

    I appreciate your thoughts.
    Jay
     
  6. ArizPestWeed

    ArizPestWeed LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,457

    One way is to let it get full & tall & healthy .
    Then spray it .
    The more leaves it has the more kill you'll get .

    Even if it kills everything else , it may be the only way to do it in.

    The you can control it with a pre , if it starts by seed .

    Just becuase it's not on the label doesn't mean it wont control it .
     
  7. GroundKprs

    GroundKprs LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,969

    Whoa, Jay! When you come up with the chemical, implement, device, or whatever, that will prevent seeds from being deposited anywhere, you can retire and enjoy your wealth. And throw Jim a few dollars, huh?

    When you see a nice bed of Canadian thistle, you'll know now that these are not just a bunch of individual plants. It's more like a bed of pachysandra, but the lateral pachy stems are only ½" underground, and the thistle's are up to a foot deep. Getting that underground stem is what takes the time. Each application will kill off some of it, but new plants are regenerated from living parts left - and the next app kills some of that part. If you cannot spray because of other desireable plants - I usually have to get it out of ground covers - you can hand wick with Roundup. The original Roundup formulation worked great at 50/50 mix for hand wicking. Seems Roundup Pro is too strong at that rate - not enough translocation, and some damages to surrounding plants. So with Roundup Pro, I use about a 30% rate for hand wicking.

    And Canadian thistle is basically a plant of unmanaged areas, like quackgrass, wild morning glory, and others. I don't find it a problem if maintenenace is being done on beds. Not sure if Snapshot does control it, but I have never had it get established in a property that I managed. I'm cleaning it out of areas I have not maintained in the past. Probably most of the time, Canadian thistle comes in with the landscape plants that were grown in a dirty nursery - same way you often get quackgrass and wild morning glory.

    On the fungus(?) damages, are you sure it's not grubs? I had so much dollar spot this year, and then the rains quit completely so there was some drought stress. The combo of the two made it hard to pick out grub damages - but I had so many grubs, I tested almost every dried out spot, too - LOL. If you do have patch disease problems, they really start to show up in drought stressed turf, so that could be a possibility also. But patch disease is from long term mismanagement, in my experience.
     
    Russ likes this.
  8. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Posts: 1,517

    Thanks Jim

    Yeah, I am pretty sure they are not grubs, although I am with you on the widespread occurance of grub damage this year. Wow! I also saw alot of Dollar spot in my irrigated yards this year as well. Well, even if it is a patch type disease, it seems like it would be a waste of money to try to do anything with the lawn at this point. I learned something new...I did not realize that thistle was stoleniferus. Cool.

    Hey thanks so much.
    Jay
     
  9. Garden Panzer

    Garden Panzer Banned
    from Seattle
    Posts: 313

    in my region, roundup won't kill Canada Thistle...
    ya gotta add a broadleaf in the mix....
    My mix is Roundup/2ozgal/trimec/2ozgal/Surflan/3ozgal...
    this kills whatever, I never do a post spray WITHOUT a PRE in the mix....
    :)
     
  10. ArizPestWeed

    ArizPestWeed LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,457

    Why do you the very expensive Surflan ?
    Barricade is much less.
     

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