got the 3 wreaths in today from vickerman. I will post pics later, looked at it tonight and in the dark it is no question- I cannot sell the 12' Cheyenne. it is simply too thin. it came in 8 boxes that look like a yard display box. about 4" thick. yes, you can fluff the garland out a bit, but it just has no curve or depth at all. at best it is 7" thick fluffed, and you can't really fluff it without revealing underside. foliage is several colors of green and a few small pine cones, but you can't really tell they are pine cones on a 12' wreath. I think you could probably sell the smaller Cheyenne's, maybe 8' or under, but at this diameter you need thickness to make it not look like a pancake. and the frame is 1/4" welded steel, probably would hold up ok, but I am afraid I am sending it back and swapping for another teton. shipping on 8 boxes was also about 150. the grand Teton is another thing entirely. impressed on some points- I don't know if this frame follows down the entire Teton line, but this is lots of 3/4 square tube steel, good decent curve to frame, and good welds. will see how it holds up to multiple ups and downs over the years. and long foliage that comes pre-fluffed in a large 65x20x42 boxes that hold 2 sections out of 6. so 3 boxes make one wreath. each section bolts to the next with 4 bolts. when fluffed, wreath is about 16" thick. about 1/2 that is frame and 1/2 that is fluffed foliage. not a fan of the single color foliage, I wish I had a couple bushels of jumbo pine cones around. and they could have added a bit more foliage. it is fairly easy to see through if not fluffed right. a white or very light color background would not be good. wrapping the back of the frame with 100 bucks worth of really cheap dark green glitter garland would solve that. the band width is 42 inches fluffed. so sizewize and proportions, a very good looking wreath. be aware that shipping is a bear on these. add 250-350ish bucks to whatever you see the price is. weight wise, I am anxious to see if two guys can easily pull this up with ropes. each section feels like about 40 pounds. so 240ish pounds. the increased price is way worth it at this size.