Soil Conditions Matter???

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by Smallaxe, Jan 31, 2013.

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  1. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,560

    Sorry, I'm on a roll here....

    For those of you who are interested enough to do some reading, I recommend this study released Jan, 2010: Suppression of Pythium damping off with compost and vermicompost
    by Allison L. H. Jack & Dr. Eric B. Nelson.

    http://cwmi.css.cornell.edu/organicfarmingfinalreport.pdf
     
  2. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,081

    Soil structure from perpectually wet or dry then wet??? too complicated for this forum... let's talk about fertilizers again... :)
     
  3. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,081

    Compost and vermipost, consistantly wet or dried between waterings doesn't matter... I'll bet this works on any soil texture also... 1 dimensional living soils... that's "DEEP"...
    Too easy to get lost in ramblings if we consider all of the environmental factors that make up Elaine's Living Soils... one dimendsion at a time... 1 dimensional thinking makes it easy to avoid a simple question that that is outside the formula box...
    Anymore repeat ideas and concepts to rehash over and over and over again... Mmmm, compost.... :)
     
  4. Skipster

    Skipster LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,074

    I love it when amateurs cite papers without reading them!

    Nelson's paper clearly states that efficacy has been seen only in greenhouse studies, but NOT in the field. This is precisely for the reasons that were discussed ad nauseum in all the threads about biologcial controls.

    See:

    http://organiclifestyles.tamu.edu/soil/microbeindex.html

    and

    http://aggie-turf.tamu.edu/files-2005/D-Zuberer-SPORTSTURF-article-2005.pdf

    and

    http://webcast.usga.org/usga/zuberer_microbes.wmv

    When these practices are taken to the field, they don't perform well because the conditions in the field do not support the necessary changes in microbial populations. If that environment could support those populations, they would have been there already!

    Also, if you actually read the research that was cited, you would find that no biological treatment worked better than conventional treatments!

    Don't forget about your basic plant pathology, too. It shouldn't be any suprise that sewage sludge, composts, and manures reduced dollar spot severity, since they contain N, which disrupts dollar spot and creates a healthier plant. If you actually read the studies cited, you'll find that no biological treatment reduced disease severity more than proper fertility and water management did.

    BTW, I find it odd that I'm constantly reminded on this board how lawns are different than golf courses and that things from golf can't possibly be carried over to lawn maintenance. Then those same folks cite an article fro mGolf Course Maintenance magazine to prove their point about lawns. Intersting ...
     
  5. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,298

    And I love it when amateurs make claims they have no hope of supporting. But of course, you have reviewed, if not written, all research not only cited, but conducted in this field of study.... heh skip?

    Oh and if you think all the research in this area was conducted in a lab you clearly haven't even begun to read anything regarding biological control/suppression of turf grass diseases. But heh, don't let me stop you from continuing to publicly display your ignorance. BTW, nice links to peer reviewed journal articles. :rolleyes: Perhaps you can find a nice youtube video to support your ignorance.

    I find it interesting you feel the need to continually put words in peoples mouths and repeatedly demonstrate you don't understand the difference in management intensity of sports turf vs. residential/comm turf.
     
  6. Skipster

    Skipster LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,074

    Just read the papers cited -- the info's all there. You should probably read your pathology journals and attend the APS (American Phytopathological Society) meetings. You can keep up with turfgrass pathology research at the CSSA meetings, as well.



    Again, read the article you linked, the papers it cited, and keep up-to-date with current work from APS and C-5.


    You linked a GCM article -- which is NOT peer reviewed. :hammerhead:

    Pot, meet kettle.


    I didn;t put words in anyone's mouth. I get pounded for suggesting that anything to do with golf or athletic turf might be even remotely associated with lawns. If you don't know enough about turfgrass systems to know the similarities and differences between the two, you probably shouldn't comment on them.
     
  7. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,081

    Thanks Skipster for pointing out another Kurl URL that has hypothetical AND irrelevant fantasy as if it is science...

    it shows that the issue between educated vs. indoctrinated is truer than ever... because the agenda of global warming is fact, no matter how stupid the rationale is ,,, for anything baloney put forth by the proponents of global warming,,, there is always some self-esteem indoctrinated student believer who will say,"I BELIEVE."

    It's no wonder this generation can't make sense of anything in the real world... the fantasies that they bought into, doesn't matchup with soil and structure... we BELIEVE compost makes soils better, but we can't make sense of what happens when we add water into it to make it happen effectively... we just know that compost WORKS... its like magic, becuz it can't be explained and/or managed...

    Again we are now on page 7 and no coherent contribution to Soil Structure becuz the DETRACTORS are out in force again... I know I'm rambling on and don't understand how soils are made, just as the petty basher says... :)
     
  8. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,081

    Whenever anyone can no longer make a point on merit,,, they always resort to personal attacks... that is becuz they know they have no truth to offer but they are driven to push an agenda no matter what... shouting down an opponent is what stupid people have been doing to get ahead in the world... they believe that no one will notice that they can't make intelligent contributions if they scream,,, "IGNORANT FOOL!!! " at everyone ELSE...
    I realize that this adage may be something that many people have never heard and are probably incapable of grasping the significance of it... for the others...
    **Let a word to the wise be sufficient**
     
  9. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,560

    Dear Lord,
    Please remind me to stop posting here.
     
  10. ToddH

    ToddH LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,197

    Where is the like button? :laugh:

    Too much incomplete compost being mucked out of the stalls.
     
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