Duekster, I am aware of the two sites you posted. However, The Arkansasturf.org is a association I am already a member of . It is the Arkansas Turfgrass Association.........this site is just a marquee to their organization. I have trolled through their sites and have been disappointed. Talked to our U OF A and State Plant Board director Dr. John Boyd in Hot Springs, Ar. a couple years ago about the sites. He said they are in their infancy stage and will take some time for building. NOT Very Informative and easy to navigate. Axe, I have a growers question that may lead into another in depth discussion for practicality. Since annuals are grown in green houses for the most part and other plants are grown outdoors, Can we obtain the ingredients at a competitive price and perform natural healthy soil techniques? I am aware of PHC products in packets or poundages but has anyone really tried them and can attest to results in grasses and not trees or shrubbery. I know that we cannot make a wonderful Blueberry cheese cake from scratch without paying 70.00 for ingredients vs. eating out and getting a cheaper pie at the store. Not all of us members have access to wholesale suppliers that will not cut off our legs in shipping costs. The bigger cities seems to be the one's that have more lawn problems per say but it is easier for you guys to get the materials you want. I have one simple darn question who's answer is being avoided or can't be solved. How can you take a Bermuda lawn that is grown on top of clay soil--with pitiful top soil and make it livable? Coring, plugging, aerating.......whatever you want to call it........thatching because of surface rooting and make a suitable healthy, worm ridden, beneficial acceptable lawn.???????? All the time preventing brown patch, surface crusting, thinning out, compaction?? I don't think the answer exists or all these companies would not be selling soo many products to simply mask the problem without any cure!! I can't help but to fall prey to those customers that want to see results in two years without seeing their savings go down the toilet. I a company has a sales pitch to solve problems.......then you better well do it or quit advertising the product.