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southwestern irrigators

6K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  BrandonV 
#1 ·
Just got back from a trip to vegas/grand canyons/lake mead. had a good deal of fun. It's odd not having humidity in the air, yall should try it :)

Regardless after taking the dam tour (which I absolutely loved and recommend the extended guided tour $$) I have decided most of yall will be out of business in 5-10 years. What are yall planning on doing? Being on the east coast it really put things into perspective on yalls population problem out there. The guide explained that lake mead is 50' below "optimum" level and is loosing ~10' a year and basically said that if the lake drops another 50' that hoover dam will no longer be able to generate power (that's 5 years unless yall get a hurricane.

I don't care how much irrigation maximization you do there's no way the landscape industry is going to win out vs agriculture/industry and domestic use. I don't think ending landscape irrigation will solve the problem either but we'll be on the chopping block first. What is the left coast doing about these levels? Desalination plants? Cutting off Mexico from the Colorado?
 
#2 ·
Brandon, truthfully, I have been thinking about that this winter. What am I going to actually do when I am forced to shut down the biz due to lack of water? Our local snow pack is less than 50% normal, and I think the state average is at 65%. Water level is at about 65% in the reservoirs. One small town near me is called Palmer Lake. The lake is dry. It's a mud pit right now. Local utilities is back to restrictions again, and it may even start out as two days a week watering. In our climate, with no humidity, our grass cannot survive if we have the same conditions as last year. At 95+ degrees, no humidity, and no rain, even at three days a week it was tough.

Now here is the thing - I can schedule within the proper 2 or 3 days a week watering, and personally I CAN make the grass stay green and thrive. BUT - the issue is we SHOULD NOT do that!! If there are restrictions in place, it is for a reason, which is to save water. On a customers given days, I could set to run morning and evening, which is not forbidden in most restriction guidelines, that would give it either 4 or 6 cycles in a 2 or 3 day watering per week. But we are supposed to CONSERVE water, not work around the guidelines. Homeowners need to understand that in our conditions, a lush green lawn is not going to happen unless we waste water. They need to accept the fact that lawns will not be green if our climate or at least local weather patterns don't change. They need to keep the grass alive, not thriving. It can stay alive in a semi-dormant state, until it rains again.

Also, they ask/force us to conserve, and then continue to raise rates.
here's a recent local article http://www.gazette.com/articles/springs-149730-colorado-levels.html

I am going to an ALCC meeting (local industry organization) next month, and that particular meeting is focused on drought and restrictions. Should be interesting. Will update. I'm not a member, but going as a guest of another company.

As for your trip out this way, glad you could make it. How do you feel about low or no humidity? I love it. Whenever I go to visit families on each coast, I can't wait to get back to the land of dried skin, chapped lips, and always needing a water bottle handy. :laugh: Now taken even to another level at 6500' where the sun bakes your skin, dries out the lawn in an hour, and weathers the wooden deck like you wouldn't believe. Seriously, I prefer it though.
I've been to the Hoover dam as well, but not taken a guided tour. Neat place.
 
#3 ·
Just got back from a trip to vegas/grand canyons/lake mead. had a good deal of fun. It's odd not having humidity in the air, yall should try it :)

Regardless after taking the dam tour (which I absolutely loved and recommend the extended guided tour $$) I have decided most of yall will be out of business in 5-10 years. What are yall planning on doing? Being on the east coast it really put things into perspective on yalls population problem out there. The guide explained that lake mead is 50' below "optimum" level and is loosing ~10' a year and basically said that if the lake drops another 50' that hoover dam will no longer be able to generate power (that's 5 years unless yall get a hurricane.

I don't care how much irrigation maximization you do there's no way the landscape industry is going to win out vs agriculture/industry and domestic use. I don't think ending landscape irrigation will solve the problem either but we'll be on the chopping block first. What is the left coast doing about these levels? Desalination plants? Cutting off Mexico from the Colorado?
Yup .... been saying it for years. All those downstream folk are hating life when drought hits, as well as all those upstream folk who were dumb enough to sell their rights to the downstream folk.
 
#6 ·
Just how much water is wasted in ag use? Maybe it's time to look at what they're about.
While i personally see ag water waste daily, i also see efforts to conserve water. Most of these efforts are in conjunction with conserving other resources, Shoes.

The costs of conveyance force ag to limit pump time now more than ever but i can only speak for Jefferson.

The farmers and ranchers that i was raised around always preached conservation, water was a precious commodity. The wetlands were left be for the ducks and geese to rest on during their journey.

Farmers and ranchers like waterfowl, tastes good.

If you have looked at some of my posted pics you see conservation efforts made through concience rather than mandates. Again i can only speak for my experiences in the state of Jefferson.

Gregg and Chief, living in Baja Jefferson may have different experiences and/or observations.

As always i look forward to everyones input, especially Chiefs
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#8 ·
yep.... It kind of makes me wonder what was going through our idiot governers head last year when he officially declared the drought in CA as over. We should always be in a state of declared drought. The minute they say it's over people go back to wasting water. I can't tell you how many irrigation systems I saw running in the rain during the last few storms that we had. Until it starts really costing people they won't care.
 
#11 ·
In the early 00's we had similar talk in Sydney. Regular rain seemed to have disappeared, all the climate change folk were talking doom and gloom, predicting that most capital cities in Australia would be out of water within 5 years. In 2008 regular rain started to come back in Sydney and our major dam went from 38% to 65% over Winter and slowly started to rise over the next year. In 2009 they lifted the ban on sprinklers after previously saying they will never be permitted again, especially with the growing population.

Two years ago Brisbane and South East Queensland suffered from massive floods for the first time in 40 years, and Sydney copped it last Summer. We had our wettest Summer on record. Our dam was full and now this Summer which has been hot and dry ( It is Summer here now) business is booming.

There were some tough times when they banned sprinklers, but I think weather patterns just shift over time and will return to what is considered "normal" eventually. An expert here was saying it all goes in 8 year cycles- dry patches and wet patches. I'm not saying to not think ahead and think about an alternative career, but I think there are people with agendas out there that make things seem much worse than what they actually are.
 
#12 ·
While i personally see ag water waste daily, i also see efforts to conserve water. Most of these efforts are in conjunction with conserving other resources, Shoes.

The costs of conveyance force ag to limit pump time now more than ever but i can only speak for Jefferson.

The farmers and ranchers that i was raised around always preached conservation, water was a precious commodity. The wetlands were left be for the ducks and geese to rest on during their journey.


Farmers and ranchers like waterfowl, tastes good.

If you have looked at some of my posted pics you see conservation efforts made through concience rather than mandates. Again i can only speak for my experiences in the state of Jefferson.

Gregg and Chief, living in Baja Jefferson may have different experiences and/or observations.

As always i look forward to everyones input, especially Chiefs
Posted via Mobile Device
when the wetlands in the Central Valley are patrolled by rangers who are under orders to drive the waterfowl away from the selenium-polluted nesting areas (created by farmers pumping excess field water into the San Joaquin River) that kind of tells you things could be managed better
 
#15 ·
Nice pics! I have done that trip before with out a tour though. Glad you had fun.

I've wondered the future of the business as well. New rules will be in place with higher costs. Inevitable.

Seattle hasn't been hit by this. Though it could one day. At the moment our snowpack is 125 percent with all of our major reservoirs above the yearly average.
 
#16 ·
about the same temp to me as here. The grand canyon was very nice, high of 20˚ w/ no wind. I was dressed as I'd be here in the 30s and was pretty comfortable. One young lady from asia was wearing shorts/tights poor thing was freezing. My bride looked like she was going to the north pole however.
 
#17 ·
when the wetlands in the Central Valley are patrolled by rangers who are under orders to drive the waterfowl away from the selenium-polluted nesting areas (created by farmers pumping excess field water into the San Joaquin River) that kind of tells you things could be managed better
Since you're talking about Baja Jeff or BJ, you would need to post a link Shoes.
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#18 ·
Since you're talking about Baja Jeff or BJ, you would need to post a link Shoes.
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Old old news, by way of public television. Rangers fired shotguns, I think, to scare off the birds from their nesting areas. The selenium was making for birds with birth defects.

Because California soil in the Central Valley was once seabed, it has seabed minerals in it, and ag watering washed them out of the top of the soil to the water that would build up deeper in the fields. The water buildup was mineral-rich to the point where it damaged crop roots if the water table rose high enough, so the farmers' remedy was to pump out the ground water and send it downriver.
 
#19 ·
Old old news, by way of public television. Rangers fired shotguns, I think, to scare off the birds from their nesting areas. The selenium was making for birds with birth defects.

Because California soil in the Central Valley was once seabed, it has seabed minerals in it, and ag watering washed them out of the top of the soil to the water that would build up deeper in the fields. The water buildup was mineral-rich to the point where it damaged crop roots if the water table rose high enough, so the farmers' remedy was to pump out the ground water and send it downriver.
I have never owned a TV Shoes so i doubt there is much of a chance i will catch the rerun.

Kinda hard to believe that Fish and Wildlife (100 million dollar name change) would be chasing the birds off with guns when they have air, LP and carbide cannons to scare them. But WTH i live in Jeff.
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#20 ·
I am less certain of the specific noisemakers used than of the rangers regretting aloud that their job had been more or less turned upside down, having to spend their efforts chasing birds out of their former sanctuary. If the central valley ag water is cheap enough, I don't assume it will be utilized thriftily. Maybe the increased energy cost of pumping out field water has hopefully contributed to different practices.
 
#21 ·
Old old news, by way of public television. Rangers fired shotguns, I think, to scare off the birds from their nesting areas. The selenium was making for birds with birth defects.

Because California soil in the Central Valley was once seabed, it has seabed minerals in it, and ag watering washed them out of the top of the soil to the water that would build up deeper in the fields. The water buildup was mineral-rich to the point where it damaged crop roots if the water table rose high enough, so the farmers' remedy was to pump out the ground water and send it downriver.
Booty .... the boron & selenium problem is primarily a San Joaquin Valley problem, specifically Kesterson Reservoir historically speaking.
 
#23 ·
I have a lot of concerns regarding water conservation and best use of our resources.
Lots of things to talk about.

Dwindling Sierra Nevada snowpack due to climate change.

Environmentalist do-gooders wanting to remove Hetch Hetchy from the water system and restore that valley to wilderness.

How much water is being recycled/ reclaimed? Locally a lot goes into purple pipes and waters landscaping in industrial parks and gold courses (as I recall).

My grandfather retired his lawns in 1976, when drought first became part of our vocabulary here, and got into cactus and succulents and a few natives.

I haven't installed a sod lawn since 1996, after reading Cadillac Desert by Mark Reisner.

More later. Off to a job now.
 
#24 ·
The CLCA posted a link to this story on their facebook page..... It's an interesting read. It makes sense but I question the numbers.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science...irrigation-20130130,0,4792000.story?track=rss
I wouldn't doubt it. I read a article a while back saying how many of the man-made lakes (which there are several near me) have increased severity of thunderstorms/rain fall. I'd believe this in a heartbeat because of what we call "lake effect rain" I live 20 miles from a large lake and a typical .25" rain here will result in a 3" rain there consistently. I'm not in favor of tearing down the damn though :)
 
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