stone dust walkway

Discussion in 'Landscape Architecture and Design' started by longslawn, Sep 22, 2001.

  1. longslawn

    longslawn LawnSite Member
    Posts: 201

    How much should be charged for reworking walkways with stone dust. The amount used was 8 tons. My hourly rate I know, but was wondering what the rate was for Sq. Ft. or by the ton. The walk was brick edged, and the base was in solid shape only a refreshing of the stone dust.

  2. Stonehenge

    Stonehenge LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Midwest
    Posts: 1,277

    You've got to figure out what your costs are and add the appropriate margin for profit, then don't look back.

    Paul started a thread that I believe was titled 'Pricing'. Run a search for that.

    If it was just crushed stone spread into an existing crushed stone walkway, my mat'l cost would be about $30. I'd probably end up charging $300-800 depending on other project variables.
  3. longslawn

    longslawn LawnSite Member
    Posts: 201

    The material cost 135.00 and took me and 4 men 6.5 hours to spread, level, and roll. This is in a formal garden and had to be hand worked and moved . The time seemed to be alot but I haven't done this before and wasn't sure if the labor was more than should be. I was please, and so were the property owners with the results. I know we worked steady on the job and this is the amount of time it took(32.50 man hours). It was also 10 tons instead of 8. I have no problem billing for the time and material but was curious as if it was priced by the sq.ft. or tonage with variables as sod, and other items are.

  4. Guido

    Guido LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,085

    I can't tell you what you would charge because I don't know your overhead costs and labor costs, etc.......

    But here's some help:

    If you figure out how much you can do (in sq. ft. or tons, or whatever other measure you want to do ) per man hour, and figure in your overhead,materials, profit, labor, etc. There's your answer.

    If it costs me say......

    $17.50 a ton for dust (after 25% markup)
    $26.00 ($8 an hour for 3.25 manhours per ton)

    Thats $43.50 per ton so far. You still need to add in your overhead recovery, a profit, and taxes of course.

    You can do the same thing with Sq. Ft. or any other measure you'd like.

    I will say one thing, even though no one else has mentioned it (maybe I'm the only one that did the math, or maybe I don't understand correctly).

    It seems like 3.25 manhours per ton of anything is a long time, never mind something as easily shoveled as stone dust is. I'm not saying you guys are slow, and I understand your doing it all by hand, but I still think there's something funny with those numbers. Thats where you can hurt yourself on a bid. If I can do a ton an hour, of course my bid will be a lot less than yours (if I'm doing it by hand also).

    Hope this helps some, if I got off track and you have other questions on this please post them.
  5. longslawn

    longslawn LawnSite Member
    Posts: 201

    What I was wondering was does anyone price this type work by the sq.ft.. In the time giving I included travel time, material pickup,
    ect.. If we do work based on time and material I charge for all time alloted to the job including travel, cleanup, ect.. I think the time for actual work on site would be around 24 man hours. I guess I was just wondering if this was priced by the Sq.Ft.
    I think for the area we had to apply the material we did it in probaly as good of time as possible. I really don't concretrate on speed as much as I do QUALITY. This has worked well for me the past 12 years.
  6. Stonehenge

    Stonehenge LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Midwest
    Posts: 1,277

    Well, this might come off as a bit pejorative, but how much quality really goes into a crushed stone walkway?

    I'm always trying to figure out a way to make projects go faster, while maintaining quality.

    We're at the point now where, when planned appropriately, a 300 sqft patio with 2 steps takes a crew of 3 no more than 1 day (for new const). I'm finding that some of our 'lesser' competitors are doing the job for less, and doing it in 2x, 3x, or 4x the time. Doesn't take much math to figure out who will have the better business in the long haul.

    Now, back to your question of price. People here price things different ways. I don't think it would of any value to you to tell you how we might price that as there are many variables we don't know. Further, not everyone would do that project the same way. I'd have our skidloader there, if only to fill wheelbarrows.

    The time needed does seem high to me as well. I don't know how big your trucks are, but having the stone delivered would have been a time saver (and the savings would have more than paid the del cost).

    A crew of 3 for me, I'd give no more than an hour or two to spread, rake, compact the stone (if needed).

    Another thing to consider for me - sounds like more of a hassle doing this than it's worth. I'd have priced it higher because of that.

    What I want to know is, how is it that you were able to do a job for a customer without letting them know how much it'd cost?

    Now go look at that thread on pricing. You'll likely find that you get more responses here if the regular posters here know you've already done some research.
  7. longslawn

    longslawn LawnSite Member
    Posts: 201

    I agree that quality is not as big an issue on some job items but this is a historical home with a very nice garden that is used for formal functions and weddings. I don't think there is any way I could have done this job faster. The material was subbed out for delivery. There was close to 500' divided of walkway in this garden.
    As far as pricing, I do a vast majority of the work I do without having to price or bid beforehand. Most of the work we do is from repeat clients and refferals. We do our best to give a quality job and as fair of price as possible on any work we peform.
    I was not wanting it priced by someone but was curious if bid or priced was it done by the job or did people price it by the sq.ft..
    I also assume stone dust and stone screenings are the same thing.
  8. HBFOXJr

    HBFOXJr LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,712

    I hate unit prices for anything other than as a ball parking figure when feeling out if a customer is willing to spend the $ to get a job done.

    Unit prices can vary widely because the conditions will be different on every job. Selling this way means that your seling by average. Unless all jobs are average you tend to underprice the harder ones and overprice the easy ones and get tleft with those few jobs where your "price" fits.

    The only time to work with units is if the amount of work on a project may not actually be whats was decided on and more or less work is done than planned. Then, the customer and the contractor get a fair shake.
  9. paul

    paul Lawnsite Addict
    Posts: 1,625

    This ones been beat to death, but here goes..........
    Most of my work is by unit prices.......this doesn't mean that I have one set price for anything, it's just units need to be broken out for the bidding. Until you have enough experiance to look at a set of prints with out looking at the job site don't use unit prices! Around here there is not one Park District that will look at a lump sum bid. they want to know that you have covered all the material and work outlined on the plans and bid sheets. If you don't fill them out then your out of luck and it will cost you your bid bond$$$$ You will only do that once:)

    Now for the question on pricing, with out knowing your cost for overhead and how much labor your going to need, how can we know what to bid? We can only guess on how far you had to travel with the stone dust, what it cost you, what are you paying your people, access to the site? how long to get to the site,there are a lot of ? here. Next time you do this you'll have an idea what the price per sq ft will be for this type of job!
  10. longslawn

    longslawn LawnSite Member
    Posts: 201

    Thanks for the input.:) :

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