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The new CASE track machines

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by ksss, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. ksss

    ksss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,129

    I just got back from Phoenix at the CASE proving grounds prototyping the new track machines and the pilot controls. I can't discuss the pilots but I am free to discuss the track machines.

    The CASE had their 445 track machine (prototype pilots) and also present was a Bobcat T250, and a CAT 277. We were given certain tasks to accomplish and then evaluate the performance of the machines.

    The next class (which is what I can discuss the most) was the new CASE 440 tracked machine (with servos) compared to the CAT 277 and the Takeuchi 140. There were 6 guys from around the country including a CAT owner, Bobcat owner, an operator with Komatsu and CASE and three CASE owners (of which I was one). I will say that the 440 tracked is an incredible machine. The 277 was completely ineffective when forced to work. Universally it was the lowest scored machine on the digging, and power related excercises. It was the highest scored machine in the comfort area. The CASE was loud and had hydraulic noise issues. The machine was a prototype and still has some refining to do hopefully they will address those areas before it hits production. The work end of it however was amazing. I really have never been a big fan of tracked machines, but that machine impressed me. The Takeuchi was in the middle on the power and breakout ability. It had a great seat. It is a very large machine especially compared to the CASE, some felt it was too big and clumsy. I did like the pilots in that machine, but some did not. Perhaps because I am used to the feel after having a Takeuchi excavator. If anyone is in the market for a midsized track machine (I don't know what the ROC is on the 440CT, I do know it has about 85 hp) it would for sure be worth a demo. The 440CT should be released in the 2nd quarter I was told. I may hold off on my wheeled 440 and make it tracks.
  2. turboawd

    turboawd LawnSite Member
    from midwest
    Posts: 236

    so how did the bobcat compare to the others?
  3. allinearth

    allinearth LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 609

    what type of track system is case using ?
  4. Avery

    Avery LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,389

    Strange. I tried several machines before I bought my Cat and found just the opposite. Cat outworked them all. Of course I did not have the chance to try a Case, but I would not if I did. Over the years I have found Case equip. in general to be underpowered. Worst are their backhoe/loaders.
  5. ksss

    ksss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,129

    There were certain aspects of the Bobcat were well liked. I was a fan of the handles and I felt that in its group it dug well, most scored it second (it was not in the group with the 440 but with the 445. The controls I thought were a little hesitant. But I liked the feel. I actually scored the 220 Bobcat tops in the wheeled machines (verse CASE 440 with pilots, Komatsu and CAT 257).

    The tracks are built from the ground up as their own system (CASE and NH share the same undercarriage). It is an unsuspended system similiar to Bobcat or Takeuchi. Surprisingly it was not a rough riding machine. Over the mogal track many thought it was more smooth than the suspended CAT track. I think due to the shorter track. The CAT and Takeuchi with its long track system tended to "teter tooter" then slam down at the bottom of the bump. Giving the impression it was rough riding.

    There is no doubt that the CAT 277 is underpowered both in lift capacity and digging ability (bucket and loader arm breakout). I am pulling no punchs and favoring no machine. That is the way it stack up. Saying that all CASE equipment is under powered because of some backhoe that someone ran at some point was underpowered is like saying that all CAT equipment is underpowered because this 277 was a dog. I know thats not the case. The CAT skid steers were easily outworked when compared with these machines. There were areas that CAT did better than anyone else. It just wasn't in the digging/power tested areas.
  6. Avery

    Avery LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,389

    To clarify I do not base my opinion on one machine. Merely said the Case Backhoe was the worst Case product I have ever ran. I have ran their dozers and wheel loaders as well. All fell way short of JD's or Cats.

    And do you know how the other machines were set up? Cats hydro pressure can be turned up or down. I would guess the one you ran was not turned up all the way...and for a reason.
  7. Canon Landscaping

    Canon Landscaping LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 259

    I saw a New Holland that had prototype pilot controls they will be out in march.
  8. Digdeep

    Digdeep LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,840

    I sold Bobcat for 8 years before going fulltime into teaching and running a small landscaping operation on the side (sometimes I wonder if both jobs aren't fulltime!) and Avery makes a good point on pressure settings. It is common practice to set pressures at the high end of the range to gain maximum performance, especially right before a demo. Case AND Bobcat are well known for this practice. It's a huge advantage in breakout and lift. There are many "tools" that I used to tip a deal in my favor- dirt bucket vs. a low profile bucket (breakout), the teeth on a mini-ex bucket, pump pressures, tire pressures, etc. I used to sell against a John Deere salesman that used to always demo his skids with foundry buckets to make his machines breakouts seem superior. Many manufacturers that have gotten into the CTL market sell their machines with low profile buckets because their machines are too wide for the standard dirt buckets. JD uses foundry buckets to compute their breakouts on their CTLs. Read the fine print on the brochure:) the most important thing for the customer to decide on is if the machine will do the job he expects it to do, and most importantly, will the dealer provide solid product support because the machines will break down, all of them.
  9. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    Digdeep, can you PM me with your email address? It's great to have someone with your experience here!
  10. Digdeep

    Digdeep LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,840

    Bobcat S250,

    I can't seem to send a PM. Gotta go to class, lunch is over.

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