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This advice is from a Lesco rep. today

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by robert payer, Sep 13, 2002.

  1. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,476

    The rehabilitation hospital we experimented at has a 20 acre front lawn. It get's cut with an old gang reel mower at < 1". The area we used was seeded with anual Rye about 2 years ago by a paving contractor. That area contains no perennial grasses today (except for the 5,000 sq ft test plot).

    That lime green (all crabgrass) lawn stayed green all through out this summers drought just like it allways does. But come the first frost, look out. A 100% all brown "monostand" of dead Crabgrass. It looks pretty pathetic until June, when the crabs start to "fill-in". Since the crabs do eventually provide good cover, the current administration doesn't feel the main lawn is worth expending any resources on.

    In contrast, the 2 acre courtyard behind the hospital is a stunning example of fine horticulture. The irrigated lawns there are kept near perfection using modern rotary & an agronomically sound program.

    The grounds foreman & I want to convince the administration of the hospital that a conversion to durable perennial turf grasses is possible on a respectable budget.

    So far, so good.

    A word to the wise though. As my fellow associate has already pointed out:
    THE LABEL IS THE LAW. So all of this "advice", is perfectly illegal. At least until Monsanto has actually changed the label. Until then, we're all taking chnaces.

  2. Grasshog

    Grasshog LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 270

    Robert I have had no luck leaving the thatch. I have found it best to pull it up. I use a thatch rake and than mow with a bagger.

    For many years now I have spryed a lawn one week and seeded the next. No Problems yet. I have done it in as few as 4 days.
    Never the same day.

    Good Luck My Friend
  3. robert payer

    robert payer LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 282

    3 weeks later, so far so good. Grass is up and growing in grid patterns. It was a nice suprise after being away on vacation for a week. I had set a daily timer to water the lawn while away. Watered areas came in well. Unwatered areas are a little weak. I would have to say at this time that the thatch had little to no effect on the new grass. Now that I have a digital camera I will post some pictures soon. Need to learn how. Soon I wil return to this thread. Getting settled in after being away for a week.
  4. robert payer

    robert payer LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 282

    The grass that was planted both at home and for a customer is coming in well. With overseeding the thatch was left on the surface to serve as straw. This worked well. Can not say if it is better too pick it up. Leaving it worked fine. Less work also. Serves as straw.

    As in a above previous post, I seeded 4 days after spraying roundup. Old lawn is dead new one is growing. This is despite Roundup saying 7 days. I do agree that you could consider seeding hours after spraying roundup.

    Used that Cross fire 2 brand seed. (petite turf fescue) I think that I am going to like it. Suprised at the weed content that has sprouted.

    Well I hope that this info. might be of help to people in the future.
  5. 65hoss

    65hoss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,360

    I've done it both ways. Roundup and seed on the same day and roundup then seed a few days later. Never had any problems at all.

    Thanks guys for all the info on this thread. Helps to see it in black and white that I'm not crazy. :dizzy:
  6. sparechange

    sparechange LawnSite Member
    Posts: 33

    Tremor, if the glyphosphate in roundup helps the seed germinate faster, would the application of any phosphate containing liquid help the seed germinate faster? I was thinking of something like a phosphate based detergent. Would this be a suitable technique if you were trying to beat the cold weather when overseeding?
  7. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,476

    While I haven't tried it, I'd have to agree that yes, that would probably work too. But then, that's one reason we advocate the use of a good starter fertilizer when the seed goes down. The P does help get roots going. But it also helps to beak stubborn seed coats too.

  8. TurfTamer

    TurfTamer LawnSite Member
    Posts: 15

    :confused: Doesn't Lesco sell Prosecutor instead of Roundup? Are they basically the same?

    Danny ryan
    Turftamers Lawn Care
    Newark, De 19711
  9. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,476

    We sell both. Which is kind of silly really.

    Prosecutor is made for us by Riverdale now that Glyphosate is off patent.

    Prosecutor is a step up from RoundUp original which had no surfactant. About 1/2 of Prosecutor's inert material is surfactant as opposed to RoundUp Pro which is all surfactant based.

    There is a marked improvement over Original by both Pro & Prosecutor. Though only a minimal differnece between the two themselves.

    Most off patent Glyphosate that is not Monsanto's contains little or no surfactant. But some do. There are too many for me to keep up with. LOL I found one this summer that has the word "Quick" all over the label & accompanying literature. Research indicated it had less surfactant than most of us used to add to original (when we saw the need). Common consensus now is that the stuff is NOT quick at all. I didn't try it. But have talked to good applicators who did.

    For 2003, LESCO will offer Prosecutor Pro. It will be the current RoundUp Pro and will be made by Monsanto. LESCO will continue to own & mantain the Prosecutor label as we do now.

    Personally, I never had a good application of Original Roundup fail with or without a surfactant. But I have been impressed with how it's been sped up. That is the only valid complaint I've ever heard. Slow really is only bad for impatient people, of whom there are many.

    If speeding up the Non-selective herbicide kill helps applicators get paid then that's terrific. And that's probably reason enough to keep pushing the performance.


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