Toro commercial TV5002 This one has me nuts!

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by action13, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. action13

    action13 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 29

    Toro 2 cycle, TV5002, Proline engine, 122cc, Toro model # 22040, serial number# 8906747, Engine Family VSK122u121RA

    Mower starts and runs ok, seems to stay running just fine, to test it I mower my front yard with it , maybe 45 minutes. Then after you shut it down, and go back to it 5 minutes later won't start. I have been through the carb top to bottom, complete rebuild including 45 minutes in my ultrasonic tank. New NGK plug, has a big blue spark and it jumps a 1/4 gap. This ones got me good. And yes have inspected the flywheel key. Assuming the compression is just fine or it wouldn't run at all. Have also checked for restricted muffler, intake and exhaust ports ect...Anyone had a problem like this with a 2 stroke Toro, with a Suzuki engine before?...Keep in mind I am a small engine mechanic and all the basic elementary things have been checked, and rechecked..Tom
     
  2. Restrorob

    Restrorob LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,024

    Well Tom,

    How about a compression test ?

    Will it re-start hot with a shot of carb spray cleaner ?
     
  3. Breezmeister

    Breezmeister LawnSite Bronze Member
    Male, from South Jersey
    Posts: 1,484

    Looks like you have covered all the things I would have looked at...But did you check to see if the fuel tank is properly vented ? A easy check would be to run the mower for a while, then shut it off and put your ear down near the fuel cap and slowly open it, if you hear a hiss, then the tank is not venting correctly
    Also, does this engine have reeds like the old Jake Commercials ? Have you looked at them ?

    This may sound strange, but some plugs work better then others in some machines. Stihls seem to run and start better with a Bosch plug then with Champion or NGK

    There are times you have to walk away for a while, and you know the old saying, you can't see the woods because of the trees. Have some one else look at the mower and throw some ideas at you while you check them. We all have brain farts and I have my share of them :laugh:
    Here is a link to another thread that might be of some help

    http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=35289&page=2

    Good luck
     
  4. action13

    action13 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 29

    Thanks for the replys. Ok, First, the compression is adequate, or it wouldn't run as well when it's cold. Second, I can't tell you how many times I have walked away from it to regroup, and rethink it out. Third, it has been checked in the last 2 weeks by 3 Toro dealers (each time the customer picked it up he was told it was fixed) but wasn't. Forth, I have tried 3 different brand plugs (Champion, NGK, Bosch). Fifth, It won't fire on starting fluid when hot. Sixth, it has no reed valves, has ports. Seventh, the venting of the tank is fine, was one of my first check points. See what I mean, this defies the laws of engines. This morning I will preform a few more checks on it including a coil test when it's hot, I think just maybe the spark could be weaker when hot, and fooling me into thinking it's ok. ..I'll never be able to recover my time spent on this mower, but now it's a all out war with it, and turned into a challenge....grrrrrrrrr.....Driving me NUTS!.........Tom The Mower Shop
     
  5. carlsmower

    carlsmower LawnSite Member
    Posts: 84

    Did you do a compresion test?
     
  6. S DIAMOND

    S DIAMOND LawnSite Member
    from South
    Posts: 108

    Assuming you don't have a compression problem (which would be a symptom if the following is true) and it is not suffering from an intermediate spark problem when it gets warm, I would suggest doing a pressure and vacuum test.
    Bottom line is, this is a 2-cycle engine, even though it is larger, it has to meet the same requirements to run, and that is crankcase integrity. If the seals are allowing air to enter the crankcase or flywheel side under the compression or intake stroke, then you know its going to lean out the mixture making it hard to restart.
    For that matter, I'm sure you replaced all the mounting gaskets (carburetor and muffler), and examined the carburetor insulator before you remounted it?:)

    If you are satisfied with all of the previous things you have done, then that's the next thing to check. The test will reveal any defects (regardless how small) including the slim chance of a porous casting.

    I would use a spark plug type tester and plug the intake and exhaust ports. Place piston at B.D.C. break out the mity-vac hand pump, and test with soapy water.

    Good hunting. :)
     
  7. F Y P M

    F Y P M LawnSite Member
    Posts: 135

    I've had this happen to my mower same engine and my problem was coil.
     
  8. Breezmeister

    Breezmeister LawnSite Bronze Member
    Male, from South Jersey
    Posts: 1,484

    Yea, been there, had trimmer do that to me two years ago. Great blue spark even when hot......:hammerhead:
     
  9. rjxj

    rjxj LawnSite Member
    Posts: 80

    Are all the fuel lines good? Many times there are very small cracks in the black rubber hoses. Happens all the time on saws and trimmers. I just replaced a coil on a Stihl backpack. It would start and run good. Wouldnt restart or wold have to pull it a zillion times. New coil and it would start with half a pull. THEN its bring out the big guns as Diamond says. The crankcase is often overlooked on two strokes. It is a vital part of the system. It can make it run poorly and destroy an engine.

    http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=219890&highlight=rjxj
     
  10. carlsmower

    carlsmower LawnSite Member
    Posts: 84

    Seriously, Did you do a compression test? Compression drops when a engine warms up. It may be at 120psi cold but could drop to 100 psi after a couple minutes of running. Anything less that 105 psi will cause hard starting. It will run fine once its running but I guess I dont need to tell you this since you are "A small engine mechanic"
     

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