Toro Electrical Problem???

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by GREENITUP, Jun 29, 2004.

  1. GREENITUP

    GREENITUP LawnSite Member
    Posts: 245

    :confused: HI GUYS. I AM HAVING WHAT I THINK MIGHT BE AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM WITH MY OLD TORO GROUNDSMASTER -PROLINE 120. IT HAS A KOHLER 20 HP ENGINE. IT STARTED BLOWING FUSES LAST MONTH - USUALLY WHEN THE BLADES WERE ENGUAGED... MOSTLY ON BUMPY SURFACES. THEN SOMETIMES IT WOULD JUMP OUT OF BLADE ENGUAGE MODE ALL BY ITSELF WHILE CUTTING. AFTER STOPPING, I COULD FLIP THE ENGUAGE SWITCH 2-3 TIMES AND IT WOULD START CUTTING AGAIN FOR 10-15 MINUTES UNTIL IT CUT OFF AGAIN. BUT LAST WEEK, WHILE CUTTING, THE BLADE ENGUAGE AND ENGINE CUT OFF BY THEMSELVES AND WILL NOT START. THE BATTERY IS GOOD AND IT HAS A NEW STARTER. YOU CAN HERE THE BLADE ENGUAGE MECHANISM KICK ON WHEN THE SWITCH IS FLIPPED, BUT THE ENGINE WILL NOT TURN OVER. ANY IDEAS? GROUND PROBLEM? BAD SWITCH?
    THANKS FOR ANY INFO. (BESIDE "REPLACE THAT RELIC"!)
     
  2. fixer67

    fixer67 LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,098

    Here is one place to check. I had one in the some last year that was doing the same thing. The wires going in to clutch were grounding out with the clutch housing and blowing fuses. All most did not find the problem because it was on top of the clutch were you can not see it right at the point it goes into the housing. Get a mirror and flashlight to check the wires there. You have a wire grounging out with the frame somewhere I would have to say. Finding it is going to be fun.
     
  3. GREENITUP

    GREENITUP LawnSite Member
    Posts: 245

    THANKS FIXER....I WILL TRY THAT TONIGHT. WHERE IS THE CLUTCH LOCATED ON ONE OF THESE THINGS? I TRACED ALL OF THE WIRES I SAW, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU CAN'T REALY SEE THIS ONE.
     
  4. fixer67

    fixer67 LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,098

    The electric PTO clutch is bolted on to the engine shaft.
     
  5. GREENITUP

    GREENITUP LawnSite Member
    Posts: 245

    WELL.... YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT THE CLUTCH / GROUND THIN...I THINK. THE WIRES GOING TO IT WERE EXPOSED - LOOKS LIKE THE CONNECTOR CASING MELTED RIGHT WHERE IT WAS TIED TO THE FRAME. THE CLUTCH TOGGLE SWITCH LOOKS FRIED ON ONE POST AS WELL. I REPAIRED THE WIRE AND AM EXPECTING A NEW SWITCH IN THE MAIL TODAY.
    BUT IF THE CLUTCH IS SHOT, WOULD THAT PREVENT THE ENGINE FROM TURNING OVER ALL TOGETHER? I HEAR A CLICKING SOUND IN THE ENGINE ITSELF WHEN I BUMP THE KEY - CAN'T SEE WHAT EXACTLY IT IS WITHOUT TAKING THE ENGINE APPART.
    THANKS FOR THE INPUT.
     
  6. fixer67

    fixer67 LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,098

    You will not be able to start the engine until you install the new PTO switch. The starter is ran thought the PTO switch so you can not start it with the PTO engaged. The clicking you hear is most likely a relay or the fuel solenoid on the carb. Install the new PTO switch and try it then. Remember to fuse all your wiring. I have seen $100 wiring harness go up in flames because some bypass a 79 cent fuse. By the way the bearing in the PTO clutch may be gone. What happens is the bearing locks up and then the whole clutch get hot and melts. Some of those clutches cab be rebuilt and some can not. If the wires are already melted I would have to say it is FUBAR (Foaled Up Beyond All Repair).
     
  7. GREENITUP

    GREENITUP LawnSite Member
    Posts: 245

    THANKS FIXER. I THINK YOU ARE CORRECT ABOUT THE CLICKING - IT IS COMMING FROM SOMETHING RIGHT NEXT TO THE CARB.
    I NOW HAVE THE NEW SWITCH IN HAND - BUT DO YOU THINK IT IS SAFE TO PLUG IT IN AND TRY IT BEFORE I KNOW FOR SURE IF THE CLUTCH IS SHOT? I JUST DON'T WANT TO BLOW A $20 SWITCH THAT HAS TO BE ORDERED FROM 6 STATES AWAY IF IT WILL MELT AS SOON AS I FLIP IT ON. IS THERE ANY WAY TO TEST THE CLUTCH BEFOREHAND? I HAVE LIMITED ELECTRICAL TOOLS.
     
  8. fixer67

    fixer67 LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,098

    I would say that since you say the wires going in to the clutch are melted I would have to say the clutch is history. Unplug the clutch before installing the new switch. Recheck all the wiring for damage. Check all fuses. You may have to have some one check the clutch but I am afraid you will have to replace it from the way you say it is. If something does go wrong you will not be able to remove the battery wire in time to save anything so here is an idea, remove the ground wire on the battery and get a pair of Vise-Grips and use them to hold the wire on the battery. That way you can disconnect it in flash. To check the clutch its self, unplug it and them get a 12 volt battery and hook the clutch straight to it. I use a fused jump lead when I do this type of thing.
     
  9. GREENITUP

    GREENITUP LawnSite Member
    Posts: 245

    OK FIXER - NOW I'M STUMPED. I TESTED THE CLUTCH EXACTLY AS YOU HAD SUGGESTED - DIRECT CONNECTION TO A BATTERY WITH INLINE FUSE. AS BEST I COULD TELL, THE CLUTCH ENGUAGED FINE - OR AT LEAST, WHEN THE POWER WAS CONNECTED - IT MADE A "CHING"SOUND AND WHEN POWER WAS REMOVED - "CHING" IT DISENGUAGED. SO I INSTALLED THE NEW PTO SWITCH, RECONNEDTED THE CLUTCH AND BATTERY CABLES, AND TRIED THE KEY. IT WOULD NOT TURN OVER. BUT WITH THE KEY IN THE ON POSITION, I TRIED THE TOGGLE/PTO - "CHING" -THE CLUTCH ENGUAGED.
    BEFORE I POSTED THIS QUESTION, I HAD REPLACED THE IGNITION SWITCH, RELAY MODULE, AND EVEN THE STARTER (I THOUGHT THE STARTER MAY HAVE BEEN THE PROBLEM AT FIRST). I THOUGHT I HOOKED THE STARTER UP JUST LIKE THE OLD ONE WAS .... BUT MAYBE NOT. I HAVE THE RED POSITIVE DIRECTLY FROM BATTERY IN TOP POST OF SYLINOID, RED FROM WIRE HARNESS ON SAME POST, BLUE FROM HARNESS ON SMALL, SLIDE-ON CONNECTOR POST, AND NOTHING ON BOTTOM SYLINOID POST. DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT?:cry:
     
  10. fixer67

    fixer67 LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,098

    bottom solenoid post? I thank you may have the wrong type solenoid on there. Go check the old solenoid and see if it has the same number of terminals. They are two types. One has two big terminals for the battery and starter and ONE small terminal for the switch and this type MUST be grounded to work. The other type has two big terminals for the battery and starter and TWO small terminals, one is for the switch and the other is for safety switches or for grounding the solenoid if use on a non-grounded surface. Tell me how many terminals, 3 or 4, that the old solenoid had and how many does the new one have. Send pictures if you can.
     

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