Toro/Suzuki Engine question

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by pugs, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. pugs

    pugs LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,022

    Hey, I have an older Toro Snow thrower with a Suzuki engine. The engine has no spark. It has the normal coil by the flywheel and then another module(igniter? whatever?) outside. I downloaded a service manual for the engine from Toro but it only has info about testing or repairing the Suzuki engine with points. I dont see anything in there about testing these coils.

    Are there any specs for them? I am sorry I dont have the exact model numbers with me. I can post them tommorrow morning. I wanna say its a CCR 2000 maybe?

    I assume its something similar to what some of the Single cylinder Kawasaki engines used...
     
  2. dutch1

    dutch1 LawnSite Silver Member
    from Jayhawk
    Posts: 2,231

    It's been a couple of years since I've been in a Toro shop and I have worked on/service numerous Toro snows with Suzuki's and I don't ever recall any additional electrical equipment other than the coil and the electric start package. Try disconnecting the switch pigtail and check for spark. Also check for any grounded out wiring to the switch. Normally one would just disconnect the kill wire at the coil then check for spark but there is disassembly and reassembly required to do so. Can't remember for sure but if you have an electric start(and it works) you may be able to pull the engine blower housing and use the electric start to turn over the engine to check for spark If indeed you coil is dead, have some big folding money ready for a new coil if they are priced anywhere close to that of the Suzuki 2 strokes on Toro 21" mowers. They were over $100 retail the last I knew. In addition I was unaware that any Suzuki's had points and condensor, at least I didn't encounter any in the seven years that I was in a shop envoirnment.

    Dutch
     
  3. pugs

    pugs LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,022

    If you will look at the attached file you will see that there is a second module besides the actual coil.

    And if you were to read the service manual that toro lists for this model you would see that it mentions a version of that engine that does use points. However it gives no info on this module at the bottom of the engine.

    The model is 38180 and the serial number range begins with 49

    6_344009.gif
     
  4. dutch1

    dutch1 LawnSite Silver Member
    from Jayhawk
    Posts: 2,231

    You are correct about the module and according to the parts list it is referred to as the magneto module and would assume that it is the part similar to the ignition chip used in Briggs to eliminate points and condensor. I would say that this is the likely problem with your lack of spark. The part number is 81-0340. If you go to www.toro.com you will be able to access a parts breakdown in the homeowner section by entering your model and serial number.

    That is the first time that I was aware of the module on Suzukis. I would imagine that the big reason is that most frequently, problems with snow blowers is fuel related due to setting with fuel in them from one season to the next or longer if snowfall is light.

    Thanks for making me aware of the situation. I have a resurrected 38185 electric start made in 95, a year later than yours and it doesn't have the module as I recall so Toro must have gone to the solid state ignition in 95.

    Dutch
     
  5. pugs

    pugs LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,022

    Well I was placing an order the other day for some Oregon stuff. Decided to pickup one of those ignition modules they sell for eliminating points. I think it is also cross referenced as a Kawasaki part for like the FB460 and FC420 that used a module besides the coil. I wired it up just to see...sure enough I have spark. Put a spark plug in and it fired up and ran pretty good :clapping:

    Not bad for 9 bucks or whatever our cost was :)
     
  6. donens

    donens LawnSite Member
    Posts: 4

    Spark Problem:

    I have a Toro CCR2000 2-cycle snowblower Model: 38186
    S/N: 2000151 with a spark problem. I have tested for spark using a timing light with the plug grounded, outside the hole. Good spark observed. However, upon inserting the plug and rechecking for spark, there is no spark at all. I have repeated this process several times. With the plug just grounded to the frame, good spark. With the plug inserted, no spark at all.

    I repeated testing as above again using a new NGK spark plug, cleaning coil mounting contact points, bypassing cutoff switch without the fuel tank installed. The results were the same.

    Any ideas on what tests to do or procedure to use in isolating the problem would be much appreciated, as this is baffling to me.

    I repeated the spark test with a spark plug in the hole and another attached to the plug wire, grounded to the head. Same no spark, very intermittent or weak spark resulted. Replaced the module with a NOVA II module system, but the results were the same.
     
  7. pugs

    pugs LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,022

    Try testing with a spark tester like this:

    http://www.equipatron.com/oregon-42...cm0420cm0087&gclid=CPCC_4GZ5rsCFS1gMgodOXkAIQ

    Hook it to the coil and ground. Then do it again with the ground wire hooked to the spark plug. Not sure why you are messing around with a timing light.

    Make sure the coil air gap is right and that the flywheel magnet is strong.

    Other than that, not sure what to tell you. With small engines you generally either have spark or you dont. Its very tough to have weak spark. Its on or off. Not saying it isn't possible but...its very unlikely.
     
  8. donens

    donens LawnSite Member
    Posts: 4

    Pugs!

    Could the problem be the magnets in the flywheel. The centre one seems strong but the ones on each side seem weak. Or Is this normal?
     
  9. donens

    donens LawnSite Member
    Posts: 4

    Also, checked compression. Cold, the compression is 115psi. Check spark using similar tester and the spark will not jump 1/2".
     

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