Toro Suzuki Survey (knocking or not)

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by vgg659, Nov 6, 2003.

  1. vgg659

    vgg659 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 10

    I am looking for a pattern to the Toro ProLine Suzuki knocking problems that has been frequently reported on this site.

    If you have a Toro ProLine with a Suzuki mower, whether you have the knocking problem or not, I would appreciate a quick reply to the following questions. I will gather this information and report back my findings to this thread. If you do not know for certain the answers, feel free to give me an educated guess, BUT LET ME KNOW IT'S A GUESS. Also, if you have multiple mowers, please answer multiple times (once for each mower).

    Do you have the knocking (a.k.a. rattling) problem (Y or N)?
    What metropolitan area are you near (I'll check for EPA requiring special fuel additives)?
    What year was your mower manufatured?
    What model is your mower (BBC, zone start)?
    How many estimated hours wear before the problem began?
    How many estimated hours per week do you run on your mower?
    What horsepower rating is your engine?
    What type of oil and what ratio to you use?
    What type of gas and what octane do you use?
    What make and part number is your spark plug (this may be important!)?
    Does your engine run lean or rich (based on plug inspection)?
    Any other notes or comments?

    Your time will not be wasted. Feel free to elaboate. I hope to solve this annoying problem.
     
  2. vgg659

    vgg659 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 10

    Do you have the knocking (a.k.a. rattling) problem (Y or N)? Yes.
    What metropolitan area are you near (I'll check for EPA requiring special fuel additives)? Baton Rouge, LA
    What year was your mower manufatured? 2003
    What model is your mower (BBC, zone start)? zone start model # 22040
    How many estimated hours wear before the problem began? 10
    How many estimated hours per week do you run on your mower? 2
    What horsepower rating is your engine? 5.5
    What type of oil and what ratio to you use? Amsoil 100:1 @ 50:1
    What type of gas and what octane do you use? Chevron 93
    What make and part number is your spark plug (this may be important!)? NGK BPMR4A (original plug)
    Does your engine run lean or rich (based on plug inspection)? rich
    Any other notes or comments? No other gasoline additives have been used.
     
  3. Tx Firefighter

    Tx Firefighter LawnSite Member
    Posts: 76

    1- knocking YES!
    2-metropolitan area. I live 30 miles from DFW area. I never buy gas in town though, always out of county
    3- mine is a 2003
    4-zone start I guess, no BBC.
    5- knocking began within 3-5 hours of new
    6- 1 hour per week now because I get pissed at the sight of the thing
    7- mine is 5.5 Suzuki
    8- Stihl brand oil at 50:1 ratio
    9- Murphy USA fuel (wal-Mart's station) I've tried everything from 87-91 with no real difference in the noise
    10- original plug
    11- unsure of mixture, I'm not going to work on the f-n thing. It's only had 5-6 tanks of fuel through it. It's supposed to be warrantied!

    I change my air filter every half tank of fuel or so. I have several that I keep serviced and ready to drop in.

    No fuel additives ever

    I hope I never see my dealer anywhere in a dark alley or the sumbitch is going to learn a lesson about standing behind what you sell.
     
  4. Willis

    Willis LawnSite Member
    Posts: 176

    Two toros, both 5.5h 2 cycles, both 2002, both rattle.
    Spokane, WA.
     
  5. MWHC

    MWHC LawnSite Member
    from Wyoming
    Posts: 202

    My proline Toro suzuki

    #1 - No knocking problem
    #2 - Operate in Wyoming - 1 mile high
    #3 - Engine Built in 2001
    #4 - BBC
    #5 -
    #6 - Approximately 3 hours runtime per week
    #7 - 5.5 hp
    #8 - Use Poulan synthetic 2 cycle mix @ 50:1
    #9 - 85 Octane gas - just don't use the ethanol based
    #10 - spark plug = NGK BPMR4A
    #11 - lean

    Comments - my brother in law owns the exact same model (purchased the same day as mine) with many more hours and no knocking.

    I have read many of the posts regarding this issue. I would take it back to the dealer and have them fix it or replace it.
     
  6. Craig Jones

    Craig Jones LawnSite Member
    Posts: 121

    Do you have the knocking (a.k.a. rattling) problem (Y or N)?Yes and No
    What metropolitan area are you near (I'll check for EPA requiring special fuel additives)? Washington, D. C.
    What year was your mower manufatured? 1985, 1996,1998,1998
    What model is your mower (BBC, zone start)? 1985(zone),1996(zone),1998 (BBC), 1998 (zone)
    How many estimated hours wear before the problem began? 3 years
    How many estimated hours per week do you run on your mower? 20
    What horsepower rating is your engine?4.5,4.5, 5.5,5.5
    What type of oil and what ratio to you use?50:1 Opti 2 Mix
    What type of gas and what octane do you use?89 Octane Mobil
    What make and part number is your spark plug (this may be important!)?BMPR4A NGK
    Does your engine run lean or rich (based on plug inspection)? Lean
    Any other notes or comments? The only one that knocks is the 1996. Also, Toro website told me to use Seafoam to cure the knocking. Did not work
     
  7. vgg659

    vgg659 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 10

    In addition to the post to this thread, I've gone back to prior threads to get as much information as possible, and here's what I have so far.

    What metropolitan area are you near (I'll check for EPA requiring special fuel additives)?
    Although I'm still interested in the affects of reformulated fuels on this problem, it appears to have no bearing because one respondent has four suzuki's running the same oil/gas, and only one suzuki knocks. That goes a long way to eliminating both oil and gas problems.

    What year was your mower manufactured?
    Since the problem covers many different model years, the manufacture timeframe isn't the problem. However, given the consistent parts used over many years, it could be a part problem common to all problematic mowers.

    What model is your mower (BBC, zone start)?
    As best that I can tell, no one has reported this problem with a BBC mower. This is interesting! If anyone with a BBC mower is having the knocking problem, please let me know.

    How many estimated hours wear before the problem began?
    Varies from almost immediately to years. Since many are reporting this problem almost immediately, carbon buildup is not the likely cause.

    How many estimated hours per week do you run on your mower?
    Varies from homeowner use to commercial use. I was thinking that fewer hours of running might actually cause problems with the engine that is designed for commercial use, but this doesn't appear so.

    What horsepower rating is your engine?
    Both 5.5 and 4.5 hp engines are having the problem.

    What type of oil and what ratio to you use?
    This seems very irrelevant. Brand, ratios, etc. are too varied among the knocking engines, and many of the same oils and ratios are in non-knocking engines. One respondent has four Suzukis running the same oil/gas, and only one knocks. This isn't the problem.

    What type of gas and what octane do you use?
    Same as oil (see above). Various premium brands (Shell, Chevron, etc.), octanes ranging from 85 without knocking to 93 with knocking. This isn't the problem.

    What make and part number is your spark plug (this may be important!)?
    Everyone that replied to this question is using the stock plug. Of course, many non-knocking engines are using the stock plug, too. But, if it is preignition, I wonder what a slightly cooler plug would do to this problem? Has anyone tried a cooler plug?

    Does your engine run lean or rich (based on plug inspection)?
    Again, this varies, which makes me think that it's irrelevent. But, any given engine may have run rich in the past, leading to some carbon buildup. So, even the engines that are running lean now may have carbon buildup, which could result in preignition. But, many folks are claiming this problem began within the first few hours of operation. It is unlikely that enough carbon could have builtup in so little time. But, I suppose it's possible.

    Since it doesn't appear to be gas or oil related, or carbon buildup, or use patterns, I'm thinking it's equipment (loose or rattling), or adjustment/maintenance. Any ideas?
     
  8. vgg659

    vgg659 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 10

    The source of the rattling/knocking is the drive pulley. After pulling the blade and mower cover, I could freely move the pulley along the crankshaft. I would estimate that there is ~1/4 inch play for the pulley to move. See the thread "Need help, 5.5 hp suzuki is knocking" for additional details.
     
  9. EagleLandscape

    EagleLandscape LawnSite Platinum Member
    Male, from Garland, Texas
    Posts: 4,347

    jwingfield2k

    1- knocking YES!
    2-metropolitan area. I live int the from DFW area. Gas at the locak gas stations
    3- mine is a 2003
    4-zone start I guess, no BBC.
    5- knocking began within 3-5 hours of new
    6- 8 hour per week
    7- mine is 5.5 Suzuki
    8- Stihl brand oil at 50:1 ratio, the latest one of theirs. on octance 87 though.
    9- Total fuel87 octane
    10- original plug
    11- unsure of mixture, I'm not going to work on the f-n thing. It's only had 5-6 tanks of fuel through it. It's supposed to be warrantied!
     

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