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Toro TimeMaster 30 vs Exmark Commercial 30 vs Toro Commercial 30 vs yBravo 25

184K views 458 replies 51 participants last post by  Kaioh 
#1 ·
Yeah you're thinking oh NO! Not another thread on these mowers.

I own the yBravo 25 and last years Toro TimeMaster consumer model.

I'm hoping to demo both the Exmark and Toro COMMERCIAL versions in the following months to the ones I already own.

These are NOT front line mowers for me but mowers to replace 21's.

I will post pics of the Commercial blades vs last years TimeMaster blades in the next few days.

:waving:
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#102 ·
As of yet nobody first hand has used the TurfMaster either Exmark or Toro with a direct comparison to the lighter and more nimble homeowner TimeMaster....?

Thus far we have a second hand report from an LCO who bought both and flat out said buy the cheaper Home Owner model and be done with it.

There are about 4-5 accounts I mow with my TimeMaster that I'd drop in a heart beat if I had to run a 21' on them. Yes this is a niche mower.
I do just about everything with my TimeMaster. I've heard other LCO's basically talk down about this mower but I love it. Haven't had a problem yet. Just have to stay on top of the maintenance. There are a few properties that I have where due to size, I have to use my 22". The bagging system is not the greatest but I usually either mulch or side discharge anyway so it's all good. In time I will upgrade to a 36" or wider and just use the TimeMaster as a trim mower or something.
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#103 ·
I sold my Timemaster Saturday. Most dealers agree it is underpowered and think Toro needs to address this in the future. I'm a homeowner and I was unsatisfied. I can't imagine LCO's being very happy with this unit, but to each their own I suppose.

About the Tufmaster blades: As I mentioned in an earlier post, Toro advised not to use them on the Timemaster because the engine has a different powerband and apparently the heavier blade affects performance. Personally, I think Toro is full sh** on this one because there is no way that 179cc Kawasaki engine on the Turfmaster makes substantially more power, at any RPM, than the 190cc B&S Pro engine, and thus, allowing it to spin a heavier blade with more lift. I posted the power curves earlier and just do not see it.


GW
 
#104 ·
Maybe Toro doesn't want to get left holding the bag on a bunch of shiddy Timemaster blades. lol Sorry it didn't work out for you.

I love Toro equipment but....I think the other manufacturers will see this as a viable alternative to the 21. It will never replace the big, traditional WB mower. No way, no how. I wish Honda made a 30" with their hydro tranny and their engine. Hopefully we will see some more (any competitor)competition from other manufacturers. I would like to see the 30" mower survive.
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#105 ·
I think commercially, you might see the 30" survive but residentially, not sure.

For the homeowner, the 30"-34" walk behind class is pretty limited and by the time you spend $1500 to get into that class of walk behind, you can be riding on a 100 series Deere, Cub 1042, etc. The riders have more power, wider decks, and can be used to do more than just cut grass in many cases.

GW
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#106 · (Edited)
If Toro in fact was silly enough to put out an advisory, bulletin or heaven forbid a Service Bulletin to NOT run TurfMaster blades on a TimeMaster due to extra weight [same exact blades merely different bend] or the added lift will burden the engine. Serious pant load there.

Then again other dealers are not aware of the blades being any different....:hammerhead:

Over time I believe my Briggs generates more power than when new. I only run SL rated oil BTW in mine.

If I didn't have this mower to run I'd be bummed. It allows some of us to waste less time on smaller tighter lawns and not waste time with a 21" or have to be hassled with a bigger WB with a side hanging catcher.

My BOP 32, 36 and 44 will absolutely smoke the TimeMaster in power and manicured cut quality. Further reason why I would not want to spend $1800 on a nichie mower that lacks the tight manicured cut of bigger mowers. Plus more weight and a few other issues.
:waving:
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#107 ·
I just ordered the Turfmaster-baffle,flow control part. It mounts on the forward bulkhead under and inside the deck. The Timemaster deck packs along this forward bulkhead and this will hopefully help eliminate this and improve performance.

The Turfmaster comes with this baffle installed, it is not the mulch kit.

Toro part# is: 116-5588-01.

When the part comes in I will drill it up and install and report back. The baffle isolates the blades a bit more, I hope this will help some with the suction.
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#108 ·
I think commercially, you might see the 30" survive but residentially, not sure.

For the homeowner, the 30"-34" walk behind class is pretty limited and by the time you spend $1500 to get into that class of walk behind, you can be riding on a 100 series Deere, Cub 1042, etc. The riders have more power, wider decks, and can be used to do more than just cut grass in many cases.

GW
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Timemaster is so much faster than a rider. Before they came out i had a snapper RER that had tons of power but the maneuverability was not there so it always took longer. I wouldn't touch another riding mower unless i could get a commercial ZTR and that starts around 5k. When the 30 came out i put my snapper up for sale. I now have a faster, better cut. The rider would scalp and cut unevenly in spots. There are always some spots i just couldn't get with a rider, and had to use a trim mower. The 30 gets it all in one machine.

I have bumped the RPMs a bit and fitted the high lift blades and it runs Mobil 1 10w30 HM oil with ethanol free gas. It is plenty powerful and barely uses any gas. My snapper RER would consume about 3x the fuel with its larger engine and having to propel my weight around. The 30 is a lot more fuel efficient than my toro 22 ever was.

The problem with 30" homeowner sales is most people wish they had a riding mower. Until they actually have one and see its real world cons. $999 is very close to some cheap riders. If Toro would sell it for $899 they would have a lot more buyers. More guys looking to get a $600 honda/toro 21 would think about jumping up to the 30. $899 would be far enough away from riders to keep people from buying a cheapo rider. Are you listening Toro? $899 and make sure every Home Depot has it, not just some of the stores.
 
#109 ·
Timemaster is so much faster than a rider. Before they came out i had a snapper RER that had tons of power but the maneuverability was not there so it always took longer. I wouldn't touch another riding mower unless i could get a commercial ZTR and that starts around 5k. When the 30 came out i put my snapper up for sale. I now have a faster, better cut. The rider would scalp and cut unevenly in spots. There are always some spots i just couldn't get with a rider, and had to use a trim mower. The 30 gets it all in one machine.

I have bumped the RPMs a bit and fitted the high lift blades and it runs Mobil 1 10w30 HM oil with ethanol free gas. It is plenty powerful and barely uses any gas. My snapper RER would consume about 3x the fuel with its larger engine and having to propel my weight around. The 30 is a lot more fuel efficient than my toro 22 ever was.

The problem with 30" homeowner sales is most people wish they had a riding mower. Until they actually have one and see its real world cons. $999 is very close to some cheap riders. If Toro would sell it for $899 they would have a lot more buyers. More guys looking to get a $600 honda/toro 21 would think about jumping up to the 30. $899 would be far enough away from riders to keep people from buying a cheapo rider. Are you listening Toro? $899 and make sure every Home Depot has it, not just some of the stores.
You make some good points. It does depend on the lawn/layout as to whether a walk behind will work better than I rider. Most people don't care if the rider takes longer. They just don't want to walk. I understand that too. If you don't have a lot of areas that require trimming, a rider with a 42" deck and a ground speed of 5MPH or so with a floating deck will flat smoke a TimeMaster. The TimeMaster will bog down and give a choppy cut on a lumpy yard. And good luck walking 5MPH behind it for very long. I'd rather not work or sweat that hard personally. Anyway, I think Toro could be on to something with a little more improvement.

GW
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#110 ·
If i go as fast as my T30 will go i do get worn out. Partly because it goes fast and partly because i'm fat. I need and want the exercise it gives me though. On the 6 lawns i do each week, one lawn was faster to cut with the snapper rider. It is basically a huge, long rectangle with very limited trim. I have more garage space now that my rider is gone, and i don't need my trailer to move it around. Plus, the T30 has a bags right out of the box, something most riders sell separate. I guess i should say you do need to buy the other blades before it bags well out of the box.
 
#112 ·
For those who have used/are using the Timemaster, how did it work out as a mulching mower?
The large deck concerns me in that I'm thinking there may be "too much" to mulch properly.

I Currently run both a 36" Ferris hydro walk behind with a mulch kit installed and a 21" Toro Super Recycler, which I mulch with almost exclusively.
THIS year, growth has been fast, so I've been bagging more than in the past, but when possible, I will mulch.

I don't really care how the 30" does as a bagger, but if I'm even going to consider one, it needs to mulch "adequately" at a minimum.
 
#113 ·
For those who have used/are using the Timemaster, how did it work out as a mulching mower?
The large deck concerns me in that I'm thinking there may be "too much" to mulch properly.

I Currently run both a 36" Ferris hydro walk behind with a mulch kit installed and a 21" Toro Super Recycler, which I mulch with almost exclusively.
THIS year, growth has been fast, so I've been bagging more than in the past, but when possible, I will mulch.

I don't really care how the 30" does as a bagger, but if I'm even going to consider one, it needs to mulch "adequately" at a minimum.
I have a Timemaster and a 21" Super Recycler. In my opinion, I think the Timemaster mulches better than the 21". I put on the Turfmaster blades today and they do take a bit more power. The engine seems to be running a little slower. When the mower begins to bog down a bit it helps to raise the back of the deck one notch.
 
#114 ·
I have a Timemaster and a 21" Super Recycler. In my opinion, I think the Timemaster mulches better than the 21". I put on the Turfmaster blades today and they do take a bit more power. The engine seems to be running a little slower. When the mower begins to bog down a bit it helps to raise the back of the deck one notch.
Excellent. Someone with firsthand experience with the mower I already use.

Do you get the little strip of clippings along the left side when the grass is just a leeeettle too tall like you do with the SR4?

How does the 30" mower compare when turning at the end of a run to go back the other direction?
When I mess with them in the store, the Timemaster seems bulky and heavy. I'm having a hard time accepting that the mower is "just as easy" to operate as a 21", but what do I know, I've never used one.
 
#115 ·
Excellent. Someone with firsthand experience with the mower I already use.

Do you get the little strip of clippings along the left side when the grass is just a leeeettle too tall like you do with the SR4?

How does the 30" mower compare when turning at the end of a run to go back the other direction?
When I mess with them in the store, the Timemaster seems bulky and heavy. I'm having a hard time accepting that the mower is "just as easy" to operate as a 21", but what do I know, I've never used one.
Actually, mine does leave a strip of clippings on both sides. The mower is easy to turn. Yes, it is bulkier on side hills, etc. Otherwise it is good. Do not miss the 21" at all.
 
#117 ·
Which mower are you referring to?
Sorry. The Timemaster is very easy to turn. Simply push down on the handle bars and pivot. It is a bit more cumbersome in tight spaces though. I really like the 30" concept but do think there are some glitches and improvements that could be made to make it even better.

In full disclosure, I have not run the commercial version. Could not get a demo to compare.
 
#118 ·
I have always used Toro 21 or 22 inch mowers setup to mulch. The time master out mulches them. The twin blades result in smaller clippings and somehow very even redistribution of those clippings. If you have too much grass going through it it will bog down, just like every 21 I've ever used.

It seems a bit heavy to handle at first but you quickly get used to it. I work a desk job during the week and only mow part time. I'm not in any kind of good shape or strong at all. Yet i can easily handle it and load/unload it into my truck with one 6" ramp. The pro model would probably be too heavy for me to one ramp it.

When bagging, it picks up less clippings. It still looks clean and bagged, but it is so much easier my 2 stroke snapper hi vac. That thing vacuums everything up nicely, but i dump bags at least 2x more than the 30. The 30 leaves the smallest pieces behind bagging and picks up the bigger stuff. This gives you some nutrients for the lawn and the bagged look. It wont clean up all the small leaves from the grass or anything. So when i want to really vacuum my lawn i get out the hi-vac.

I can't say it enough, i love my timemaster.
 
#119 ·
I have always used Toro 21 or 22 inch mowers setup to mulch. The time master out mulches them. The twin blades result in smaller clippings and somehow very even redistribution of those clippings. If you have too much grass going through it it will bog down, just like every 21 I've ever used.

It seems a bit heavy to handle at first but you quickly get used to it. I work a desk job during the week and only mow part time. I'm not in any kind of good shape or strong at all. Yet i can easily handle it and load/unload it into my truck with one 6" ramp. The pro model would probably be too heavy for me to one ramp it.

When bagging, it picks up less clippings. It still looks clean and bagged, but it is so much easier my 2 stroke snapper hi vac. That thing vacuums everything up nicely, but i dump bags at least 2x more than the 30. The 30 leaves the smallest pieces behind bagging and picks up the bigger stuff. This gives you some nutrients for the lawn and the bagged look. It wont clean up all the small leaves from the grass or anything. So when i want to really vacuum my lawn i get out the hi-vac.

I can't say it enough, i love my timemaster.
Just guessing here but maybe the higher lift Turfmaster blades will help with bagging.
 
#121 ·
Turfmaster blades are a must for quality bagging. The stock blades leave even more clippings behind when bagging. So if you want to half bag, half mulch use the stock blades.
Well stated :clapping:

But for a more manicured look with fewer stragglers and/or stringers and vastly less temptation to NOT double cut areas on nicer lawns .... save some time at the expense of a fuller catcher.

All Hail the TurfMaster blades.
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#122 ·
Actually, mine does leave a strip of clippings on both sides. The mower is easy to turn. Yes, it is bulkier on side hills, etc. Otherwise it is good. Do not miss the 21" at all.
I'll try this again. LOL

You mentioned the string of clippings on "both sides". Which mower are you referring to?

While handling ease is important, I'm mainly interested in how well (or not) the Timemaster mulches since I am not really set up for hauling away bags upon bags of clippings.
 
#124 ·
I tried mulch mowing [Toro TimeMaster] numerous accounts today that I didn't want to bag with my yBravo25.

Standard TimeMaster lower lift blades with mulch plug installed. Deck will in fact load up but it will warn you that it's time to scrap the deck when little clumps drop out and appear.

More rain in the forecast so I will compare strictly wet grass mulching with the TurfMaster blades.

I'm also running an Oregon® G6 gator on the yBravo25. With Plug installed.

Typically in wet conditions my picky manicured double cut quality goes out the window. Regardless I never leave accounts looking like mowed hayfeilds.

DO NOT RUN THIS BLADE ON THE yBravo25 **unless** you use a max length spindle bolt of matching grade.

Stock one is too short. :Hammerhead:
 
#125 ·
New Timemaster homeowner here. 5 mowings (mulch only) so far....all on 3-4 days growth. 4 with the factory blade. One mowing tonight with the Tuffmaster blade that came today. I sharpened the edge before installing. I noticed it seemed louder then the Timemaster blade. Suction was a little better then the timemaster blade by the edge of the fence where I can see leaves being sucked under the deck ....but not the vacuum my Honda Hydro is. (both mowers set at the same height)
It did bog and leave scraps in two areas that are known for this but the std blade had not done this at all and todays mow was only day three. I did take the mower with the timemaster blade over to do the neighbors yard last week when they were out of town and the grass was very long..... I could not resist the test. It never bogged or clumped with the Timemaster blade. After tonights performance I'm sure the Tuffmaster blade would have been disappointing.
Another discovery. Where the Timemaster blade would leave a thick grass ring under the deck directly across from the blade....even in dry grass. The Turfmaster left the deck basically clean. Granted I used a "bagging blade" for mulching..... I'll use it a few more times and switch back to the Timemaster to see/feel the difference.
The quality of the cut seems better with less "strays" popping up afterwards....I was hoping the extra lift on the blade would stand it up better. The Timemaster blade had the factory edge on the blade which was not the sharpest and the blades of grass were not showing a sharp cut edge.

So far I'm happy. It's not a Honda but I'm saving 20 minutes a cut.
 
#126 ·
Turfmaster blades do take a bit more power to turn, since they generate more lift. There is a small metal bracket that you can bend forward to make the engine run faster. It has a small spring on it. I run a bit higher than stock speed. I changed to Mobil 1 10w30 HM synthetic oil and frequently blow the mower clean to help with the extra heat. Do these mods at your own risk.

The stock blades take less power, but lift the grass less. A bit less is actually cut and much fewer clippings are brought into the deck to be mulched, bagged, or side discharged.
 
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