Towing-Overrated Gassers & Underrated Diesels

Discussion in 'General Industry Discussions' started by PlantscapeSolutions, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. PlantscapeSolutions

    PlantscapeSolutions LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,980

    My bagged mulch thread has gone off on a tangent. I thought I would start a towing thread to get even more people involved in the madness. This thread is more for people who have experience with gas and Diesel trucks. But I'm sure some of the gasser guys will try to plead their case.

    Does everyone else with gas and Diesel towing experience notice how the tow ratings of gassers are so overrated. They are now rating 1/2 tons for 9-10K+. I was looking at Ford's website and they rate their dually gasser for 15K. Oh my god! You've got to be kidding me! My in-laws have a F250 gasser and the thing is a total joke.

    You put 10K behind any 1/2 ton gasser and send it out to tow on some steep hills and there's going to be problems. Yet you take a Diesel like an 09' Ram 3500 dually with a 6.7 and it's underrated at only 13,850 (3.73 gears). Pulling 18K with a Diesel dually is not a stretch at all. Even 20K is not an issue. At 20K your 44% past the Dodge endorsed number with no issues at all.

    You take a 1/2 ton Toyota, Ram, Nissan. GM or Ford and pad the towing number by 44% and your in trouble big time. Gas engines are built to low load standard while Diesels are way over built. Especially the Cummins.

    If you want to increase the output of a gas engine significantly you need major internal work done. The Diesels are just the opposite. You can double the output of a Cummins or Duramax without ever touching the internal parts (cams, rods, pistons, ect). I had an 02' Cummins that went from 245HP\505 TQ all the way to the 600 HP \ 1300 TQ range with all factory internals. Getting over 800 HP out of a Cummins or Duramax with stock internals is not hard. Just a programmer can add over 100 HP \ 200 ft lbs of power to a Diesel.

    Now lets touch on the delusional people who buy heavy duty gassers. I would say you see more 3/4 & 1 ton GM's gassers, followed by Ford, and then Dodge comes last. It's extremely rare to see a Ram gasser 3500 dually. I've only seen one and it must have been a special order. Buying a heavy duty truck with a weak 1/2 ton engine rarely make sense. The retail value of a heavy duty gasser is pretty dire as well.

    All right everyone else chime in with their two cents. This could get interesting. I have an 09' Ram 3500 6.7 4X4 and my maintenance crew pulls a 16' enclosed trailer with an 06' Ram 5.9CR 4x2.
     
  2. Sammy

    Sammy LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,734

    I like the Echo CrossFire trimmer line.
     
  3. DQL10

    DQL10 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 292

    I personally drive an F150 and it is rated to tow like 10,000 lbs. Not that I would tow that much on a daily basis but did do it once when I relocated a bobcat for a job this past summer. Not sure how much the total weight of the bobcat and trailer was but it felt like everybit of 9,000 lbs. Truck towed it without any issues and this was on a curvy two lane country road with trees lining both sides of the road.
     
  4. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,295

    :drinkup:

    Agreed, it's waaaaay cool.

    I went the opposite route, I have an F750 that I use to pull my 6X10' trailer with.
     
  5. castlerockmo

    castlerockmo LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 867

    Ok I have a 08 f-250 5.4L gasser I traded my 05 6.0L diesel dually in. My 5.4 will pull 10,000 pounds pretty easy I have some big hills here. Fuel millage sucks on the 5.4L I get about 9 and with the diesel I got about 13 with a buLly dog programer and only 11 without. The 5.4 will hold its own up to 10,000 more than that my 6.0 was the king I could pull 26,000 easy. Now the new 6.2 gas that ford is putting in the 250/350 seems to be a good gasser, it has a lot more power than a 5.4. That's just my 2 cents from someone who has owned both.
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  6. PlantscapeSolutions

    PlantscapeSolutions LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,980

    There a huge weight range for skids. The little ones start at 2800 lbs and the bigger ones like an S330 can go 9200 lbs. Your average sized S175 goes a little over 6K lbs and needs to be carried on a heavy duty trailer (usually twin 7K axles by default) with twin electric brakes. Around here the rental places will not rent you a skid steer unless you have a truck larger than a 1/2 ton for liability reasons.
     
  7. PlantscapeSolutions

    PlantscapeSolutions LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,980

    Did you ever have any head gasket or EGR cooler problems with your 6.0? Those 6.0 really didn't like programmers. Several companies started making aftermarket high flow EGR coolers because of all the blown head gaskets and clogged EGR's. You could also buy EGR delete kits but they were for "off road use only" not that anybody actually uses them off road.
     
  8. Richard Martin

    Richard Martin LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 14,700

    There is more to towing capacity than engine power too. Torque, which is what actually gets the job done when towing is increasable without even touching the engine. Then there is also the ability to stop the load once you get it going and the trucks ability to handle a panic situation. Engine and tranny cooling, wheels and tires. Stick or auto. If an auto the TC makes a difference. There are a bunch of things that go into a truck's ability to pull a load.
     
  9. White Gardens

    White Gardens LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,783


    Frame setup and gearing is also a big factor too in towing and hauling capacity. I've seen gassers out perform diesels only because they were geared correctly to haul and pull.
     
  10. Marek

    Marek LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,385

    You have not driven a v 10 truck then. It dosnt have the tourqe in the hills but will pull what ever you hook to it and it wont end up in the shop like may of the new diesels. I have a friend who has the same truck same dump body and gears but he has the 6.4 while we run the v10 and I have been getting .5 mpg better . Our stake body trucks are only used for what they were built for and we dont put that many miles on them, about 11 - 12 k per year. 7 grand cheaper up front, and its not in the shop like the diesels.Price out replacing the partical filter on a 6.4. If it needs a new motor at 100k I am still ahead of the game.
     

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