Two-cycle oils

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by K&M Lawn Care, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. K&M Lawn Care

    K&M Lawn Care LawnSite Member
    Posts: 45

    Has anyone tried any of the bio based two-cycle oils such as Lubegard or EnviroLogic 440? And along those same lines I have heard of people using biodiesel as their two-cycle oil. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on that?
     
  2. LawnBrother

    LawnBrother LawnSite Senior Member
    from SW Ohio
    Posts: 867

    I tried envirologic 440 from terresolve. The first case I got was an older formula and had exceeded it's shelf life (according to terresolve) and I experienced some problems starting and running my trimmer and blower, but they shipped me a new case right away once we figured out the problem. A little discomforting for a first impression, but I have researched the stuff and I have been running it in all my 2 cycle stuff recently with no problems. Feels good to know you're using biodegradable oil.
     
  3. Richard Martin

    Richard Martin LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 14,700

    I use synthetic Amsoil mixed at 80:1 in everything. Does Lubegard or Envirologic offer the same engine warranty as Amsoil? Amsoil will repair or replace at their option any engine that suffers a oil related breakdown for the life of the machine.
     
  4. LawnBrother

    LawnBrother LawnSite Senior Member
    from SW Ohio
    Posts: 867

    That's a good question Richard. I will ask terresolve about this. I know soy oil is used all over the world in 2 cycle applications, so I assumed that being soy based it would be safe to use. Nevertheless you raise a good point, I'll def. check it out and post an update.
     
  5. J&R Landscaping

    J&R Landscaping LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 5,096

    My dealer has a few sample packs of the amsoil 2 stroke 100:1 mix. He can't seem to give it away. He asks me everytime I'm buying oil if I want some. NOPE, he cant give it to me free. I only run the OEM 2 stroke oils in the engines now. Either Echo, Redmax or the Shindaiwa bottles. The wya the engines are running super super lean, I'm not taking any chances.
     
  6. K&M Lawn Care

    K&M Lawn Care LawnSite Member
    Posts: 45

    I got started thinking about these things last week when I went to a biodiesel conference. There was a vendor there that gave me a sample tube of a soy based lithium grease, that is biodegradeable. It started me to thinking about what we put out into the enviroment. We probably use more two-cycle oil and grease in a day than most homeowners use in a year, so it makes sense to me to use things that have the least impact on our surroundings.

    LawnBrother: how does the cost compare and can you tell any difference, good or bad in the way that it runs?
     
  7. tacoma200

    tacoma200 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 5,426

    I sure don't want my grease to break down. I stick with the non degradable lubrication.
     
  8. Richard Martin

    Richard Martin LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 14,700

    Just what chance is it that you would take? The use of Amsoil at 80:1 (or any ratio above the recommended) actually fattens the A/F ratio.
     
  9. LawnBrother

    LawnBrother LawnSite Senior Member
    from SW Ohio
    Posts: 867

    When I got into this business my first concern was the environment. I have to be environmentally conscious. Cost difference is negligable to me, considering the lessened impact on the environment, however, it's a tad more expensive. As I mentioned earlier, the first box I ordered was old stock that got shipped out by mistake, they rectified the problem quickly for me. I noticed my trimmer and blower bogging down and not running well, but my 2-cycle suzuki/toro ran fine on it. It was an honest mistake, the new stuff they sent me is fine. You can smell the soy from the exhaust, kind of like a truck's exhaust while running bio-d. Terresolve is a good co. trying to do a good thing with thier products, and according to their site their stuff in widely used in sensitive areas (forestry, etc.)
    Soy oil is used all over the world in 2-cycle stuff. When I was researching this I spoke with a professor who had done extensive experiments using various types of soy oils. I read his reports and sent a few emails asking questions. Degummed soy oil is the best of the soy derivitaves. Basically, according to his reports, soy oil is a superior lubricant to petrol, but I think synthetics are even better than soy, as far as lubrication goes. I seriously doubt any harm will come to my engines. I am willing to take that chance to help protect the environment. I do plan on asking terresolve about a guarantee on engine failure, though.
    BTW, I don't have the links to the university website anymore, but I might be able to find the emails and reports I shared w/ the professor, if you are interested.
     
  10. K&M Lawn Care

    K&M Lawn Care LawnSite Member
    Posts: 45

    I grease all my bearings about once a week anyway. But I don't think that because it is biodegradable that it's useful life will be that much shorter.

    These greases were originally developed for lubing the curves of railroad tracks to reduce friction so that the trains got better fuel mileage. In one study by the University of Northern Iowa said this about soy based lubes.

    "soybean base oils have been proven to provide inherently higher lubricity, better adherence to metal, better tackification, higher thin-film strength, higher flash and fire points, and higher viscosity index than conventional base oils."

    Just because petro based lubes are more readily available and cheaper doesn't necessarily mean they are better.
     

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