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Weed & feed makes weeds grow?

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by Lawn-Sharks, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. Lawn-Sharks

    Lawn-Sharks LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 912

    I really don't do many fert aps (maybe 4 to 5 jobs a year only when asked by current customers only!) but when i am asked to do the job i use a granule fertilizer and i ask my fertilizer dealer what her would recomend i use to get the job done right. The last 2 fert jobs i did i put down a 17-2-11 weed & feed on St.Augustine lawns per the advice i have been givin by my local fert dealer and the problem im having is the weed & feed that im using says it kills dollar weeds but ive noticed that more of the dollar weed has grown and none and none of it is dying. The fert dealer has said to me ooooh just give it time! I don't feel this is the correct answer? Before i did the jobs i adjusted the irrigation to ensure proper watering times & coverage and i took some fresh soil samples to the dealer and he did a ph test and said to use the 17-2-11 so i did. I feel i have done the best i could do to ensure a good quality job! But does anyone know why this seems to be happening???
     
  2. LushGreenLawn

    LushGreenLawn LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,123

    I would sub your apps to someone else. It dosen't seem like it would be worth it to pay every year for an applicators license, go to the seminars to get credits, and try to keep up with whats going on in the industry if you only want to do a few customers. It seems like you would be losing money.

    Your question is a tough one not knowing the variables. What is the active ingredient in your weed and feed? How much did you put down? How much did the label tell you to put down? What were the weather conditions?
     
  3. RAlmaroad

    RAlmaroad LawnSite Silver Member
    from SC
    Posts: 2,159

    Been through so much of that garbage. What was the Brand Name? S..tts? Probably weed killer was a granular Atrazine. Check the label. If so, Atrazine is a little Pre-em but mostly a broadleaf controller. Let me know. There's no such thing as Weed and Feed for St. Augustine!!! RIC HELP ME OUT. I quit devoting any time to that type of illusion. St. Augustine will thicken with the right type of fertilizer and PH of the soil. Find those, then spot with (A tried and true mix); the weeds to give the turf a change to knit so tight that the weeds cant take hold. Sure the weeds are grow, you gave them Nitrogen. The analysis is fairly close to right. St. Augustine needs 1lb of Nitrogen about every 6 weeks or so Until Labor Day. Do you have: Dollarweed, sedge, kyliinga, dallasgrass, winter weeds, etc.etc.? All of these take hold in thin, undernourished turf. Let me know exactly what the Brand was, so to check the pre-em chem. Bet is was Atrazine.
     
  4. Lawn-Sharks

    Lawn-Sharks LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 912

    It was a Lesco 17-2-11 weed & feed for St.Augustine
    weather conditions were normal sunny florida day about 90 degrees soil was damp and the lawn was not retaining water and i applied it according to what the specs were on the bag.And as far as the other ingredients in the mix i will have to read it and let you know.
     
  5. Lawn-Sharks

    Lawn-Sharks LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 912

    In florida you dont need an applicators license for granule fertilizer for residential use as long as you are not using on a commericial level
    (large quanity of use) which i dont. I only do it for my customer that want me to do it for their lawns other wise i dont advertise doing fert aps at all. Also i do have some lawns that i sub out but some i just get stuck doing the aps for the customers that dont trust fert companys.
    (Some customer are just set in their ways and i cant convince them any different) The older customers seems to only trust the people they see every week.
     
  6. olive123

    olive123 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 500

    WRONG...you NEED to have a commercial applicators license to apply any pesticide. Weed and feed is a pesticide. PERIOD.
    There is no requirement for straight fertilizer. But when it is mixed with any kind of pesticide ie, weed killer, preemergent, or insecticide then you need to be licensed.
    Lesco is famous for their workers not knowing the laws. The cr*p i have heard there...
     
  7. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 13,496

    Yes, this is very true. Also, something you have to understand with (any) post emergent granular herbicide is 1. it either doesn't work, or 2., it works marginally, at best. Conditions have to be perfect. the grass has to be wet when applied, then has to dry, and in most cases, cannot be watered for 48 hours afterward. Now, the chances of this happening without complete control of the irrigation are slim to none.
     
  8. rob7233

    rob7233 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 860

    I do know why this occurs. First off lets be clear. Applying any chemical to turf being a herbicide or pesticide to a client's lawn is ILLEGAL and will get you a severe fine from DACS. As of now, you may only apply straight fertilizer. Also, the Label is The LAW.

    Round up/Glyphosate may only be applied to BEDDING areas and not to turf and ONLY with a Limited Commercial applicator's license which require certification and GL of at least 400K. These are the laws in Florida and expect sometime next year to have a Fertilizer Applicator's license to be in effect.

    First of all, one can calculate the total amount of Nitrogen in the fertilizer to be applied at the recommended rate of 1lb/1000sqft per app. However, the issue arises when trying to determine the rate of application. First question to you is: what brand Weed & Feed did you use and what brand spreader did you use to apply it? Should be the same, ie, Lesco/Lesco etc or at least your spreader should be listed on the bag of fert. On the bag is setting ratings that the manufacturer has already calculated for the application of their product. Along with that issue, is the fact that everyone walks at varying speeds among the different grade conditions while spreading.

    Proper distribution rates is critical with Weed & Feed and Most LCO's and Homeowner's aren't even close to applying it correctly. Then on top of that, after application the product needs to be lightly watered in at 1/4" total.

    There are additional issues to it and the most effective means to control broadleaf weeds is through a liquid application of Herbicide in which you can't legally do. FYI: there are 3 classes of weeds: 1) Broadleaf 2) Sedges 3) Grasses. Yes, Atrazine is for St. Augustine and has a pre-emergent quality also. For God's sake do not use the "COMBO" herbicides for both Bahia and St. Augustine !! They contain 2,4,D and are extremely narrow in their safe application rates and will certainly kill a St. Augustine lawn.
    Guys, if you don't know, then don't go.... :dancing:
     
  9. rob7233

    rob7233 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 860

    I wanted to follow up on this a little more after rereading the previous posts.

    Any fert will make the weeds grow also since they are competing with the turf for the same resources, so it's important to follow good cultural & maintenance practices. Too bad a lot of LCO's may not understand just what that may entail. Seek out information. Get some more education.
    Help raise the standards of this industry. And remember, that - "All boats float, in high tide".

    The problem with Dollar weed is easy enough to control since it's really an Aquatic weed (read it grows in water). The client needs to audit their irrigation system and cut back on either the frequency and /or length of the watering times. More is not better. In fact most homeowner's practices do much to contribute to their own lawn problems. Then they run down to the Depot looking for another chemical answer.
     
  10. Lawn-Sharks

    Lawn-Sharks LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 912

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LushGreenLawn
    I would sub your apps to someone else. It dosen't seem like it would be worth it to pay every year for an applicators license, go to the seminars to get credits, and try to keep up with whats going on in the industry if you only want to do a few customers. It seems like you would be losing money.

    Your question is a tough one not knowing the variables. What is the active ingredient in your weed and feed? How much did you put down? How much did the label tell you to put down? What were the weather conditions?

    In florida you dont need an applicators license for granule fertilizer for residential use as long as you are not using on a commericial level
    (large quanity of use) which i dont. I only do it for my customer that want me to do it for their lawns other wise i dont advertise doing fert aps at all. Also i do have some lawns that i sub out but some i just get stuck doing the aps for the customers that dont trust fert companys.
    (Some customer are just set in their ways and i cant convince them any different) The older customers seems to only trust the people they see every week.

    I only apply per the instruction on the bag! I also used the weed & feed that was recommended by the dealer after a soil sample was taken.Also i have the correct broadcast spreader stated in the instruction on the bag. I set the spreader to the correct setting listed on the bag of fert and walked at a steady pace and overlaped my spread pattern after that i turned on the sprinklers and set them run for 20 min per station 6 station total.After i turned them on i swept the remaing fert in to the lawn. I count on and put my trust with the people who make and sell the fert that i buy and i do thank you for your feedback on the matter i just wish that people would give a straite answer insted of trying to make other companys look stupid.And by the way I keep a copy of the rules and regulations from the florida department of agricultural about applying fert to lawns in all my trucks and it states that if i were using large quanitys of granule fertilizer for commericial use then yes i need a license. But if i am not applying large quanitys of granule fert to residential lawns then i would not need a license. But if i were to apply a liquid fert then i need a license no matter what. Most of the lawns i do dont even take a 10,000 sq ft bag of fert so if someone want to come out and try to fine me i will be more than happy to show them the paper work stating what i can and cannot do!
     

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