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What adhesive should I use to glue EPDM to rock/cement?

Discussion in 'Water Features' started by coling, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. coling

    coling LawnSite Member
    Posts: 5

    Hi,

    I am a novice to building waterfalls, which is what my question is for.

    Having laid 20ft x 5ft EPDM and built the first of two stone faces, I want to glue a fold of the EPDM to the back of the stone. This is so that the water will not fall down the back of the stone but rather over the front of it - down to the next level - I hope you can picture this.

    My question is: What adhesive is best to glue the EPDM to the stone (+ cement)?

    I will not have any fish, so that can be eliminated. The adhesive will forever be under water - even if it's only half an inch. I don't expect that there will be any tension in the EPDM, although I cannot be 100% sure of this. And of course the temperature will vary from summer to winter (northeast).

    Is silicone (adhesive) better than polyurethane or epoxy? I would think it is better that the adhesive has flexibility - I suspect that polyurethane may become too rigid, but I wonder if silicone is better as a sealant than as an adhesive.

    Has anyone had any experience with this?

    Regards

    Colin G
     
  2. tadpole

    tadpole LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,216

    Having some difficulty getting a mental image of what it is that you are attempting to do. Is there a particular reason why foam will not work for diverting the water?
     
  3. turner_landscaping

    turner_landscaping LawnSite Member
    Posts: 187

    If u have a drop greater than 4 inches u dont need to seam liner together just over lap the two pieces.. the top over the middle piece and then set stone.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  4. neighborguy

    neighborguy LawnSite Member
    Posts: 187

    I don't think the OP is looking to seam two liners together. I think he just wants water to flow over the top. Obviously Tadpole is right, foam would be the first choice. Might be the OP's first project and rather than doing research, trying to figure it out on their own. To each his own.
     
  5. coling

    coling LawnSite Member
    Posts: 5

    Thank you for your comments about my question - I appreciate them all. Luckily I was given some advice that changed my ideas about this. I applied sealant as I think you have described above - there is no longer any fold in the EPDM.

    I have a short video which I took a while ago - before I was fully finished (I recently refined the top level). Take a look at http://www.bizconnector.com/MVI_1172.MOV - please note that this is not streaming video, so you will have to wait a minute or two before it starts.

    I would love any critiques about this. However, I have just recently discovered that there is a loss of water - a good 5-6 inches loss of water in the pond after a day. I am devastated! I don't know where the loss is happening, and I may have to wait until the Spring before I can investigate properly. Any ideas or suggestions about what I should do about this will be appreciated. I do wonder if there is a possibility that it will seal itself after a time (??).

    I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed this project - I did everything myself, including moving every rock (some were very heavy) back and forth a few times to get the design 'just right'. It felt very creative, and I would do it again - but for the fact that it has this leak. Arghhh!
     
  6. tadpole

    tadpole LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,216

    Since I could not get the video to load (waited several minutes), difficult to make any informed comments. A 5 - 6 inch daily water loss in a pond of any size is a major leak. Normally they occur somewhere around the waterfall and/or stream (if the installation has a stream). This amount of water would most certainly create a very wet area in the immediate vicinity of the leak if the leak is a result of water escaping OVER the edge of the liner. If, however, it is a hole or tear in the pond basin liner itself, it may be more difficult to isolate.
    Have you turned off the water flow in an attempt to isolate the location of this leak? If you still experience water loss with the pump OFF, then the leak is in the pond proper. If not, then it is likely in the waterfall/stream. I have, however, seen leaks occur where plumbing unions were not securely glued.
    Good luck.
     
  7. turner_landscaping

    turner_landscaping LawnSite Member
    Posts: 187

    Wat type of sealant did u use
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  8. turner_landscaping

    turner_landscaping LawnSite Member
    Posts: 187

    Well i saw the vid cant really tell much u just stood n one spot.. lol..
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  9. coling

    coling LawnSite Member
    Posts: 5

    The sealant I used was Firestone AP Sealant W56-358-7078
     
  10. tadpole

    tadpole LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,216

    I'll accept Greg's description of the video. My question really goes back to your original post. Why did you feel it necessary to use an EPDM sealant or any 'sealant' for that matter? Firestone makes a good EPDM sealant but normally if it is applied on vertical surfaces a term bar is required to maintain the integrity of the seal. On horizontal, tension free surfaces, it works quite well if applied correctly.
    The use of this sealant should not have any bearing on your water loss unless you seamed Two separate sections of EPDM.
     

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