I do all kinds of landscaping been in the bussiness for 15 years. I im trying to install a small sprinkler system at my own house. I have done some research so i am not clue less. But I tried the bucket test and it takes 45 seconds for me to fill a 5 gallon bucket from my spicket. I have 65 psi at the spicket. I also did the same test at my nieghbors house with the same results. What is the problem?
gpm test
AVERDEROSA
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I do all kinds of landscaping been in the bussiness for 15 years. I im trying to install a small sprinkler system at my own house. I have done some research so i am not clue less. But I tried the bucket test and it takes 45 seconds for me to fill a 5 gallon bucket from my spicket. I have 65 psi at the spicket. I also did the same test at my nieghbors house with the same results. What is the problem?
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Pressure and volume are not the same.AVERDEROSA said:
Design you system around 6 gpm and 65 psi.(Or use a pressure reducer) Look at your heads nozzle charts.
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I was told by the sprinkler supply that at my gpm under 7 gpm I would only be able to run two sprinkler heads in a zone. They told me I need more like 13gpm. Also spoke to my local water company and they said I should be at like 15gpm. I dont understand why my gpm is so low.
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Try connecting the pressure gauge to a different hose bibb than the one you fill the bucket from. Also, check to see if you have a pressure reducer in the house plumbing. If you are doing your own work at your own house, you have the luxury of doing the plumbing first, and doing a flow test from it. Even if you only have that 6 gpm, you can work with it. Likely, you will have more.
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Keep in mind that filling a bucket from an outdoor faucet is only coming from probably a 1/2" copper line. Assuming you're tapping into your main with at least a 3/4" line (then bumping up to 1" either before or after the backflow) and your GPM will be higher.
Good luck!
George
Good luck!
George
Hey AVERDEROSA-----
Another thing to consider. What is your supply line from the source? Copper, galvanize, pvc? How old, what size? You can pressurize any size line, quarter-inch or 2", or whatever size. But, that size line will help determine what gpm you can get. It could be, if galvanized, and old, that deposits have built up over time, and now that 'three-quarter' line, is only half-inch inside, or smaller. Hence, not enough flow, no matter the pressure. Galvanize is REAL bad about doing that.
See ya---kerdog
Another thing to consider. What is your supply line from the source? Copper, galvanize, pvc? How old, what size? You can pressurize any size line, quarter-inch or 2", or whatever size. But, that size line will help determine what gpm you can get. It could be, if galvanized, and old, that deposits have built up over time, and now that 'three-quarter' line, is only half-inch inside, or smaller. Hence, not enough flow, no matter the pressure. Galvanize is REAL bad about doing that.
See ya---kerdog
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Ok, do you have more than one hose bib? Open them both and then time how long it takes to fill the bucket. I'm betting you will still fill the bucket in about 45 seconds. 1/2" service line running who knows how long from the main will only carry about 6 or 7 gpm at best. I usually figure 1/2" pipe at 5gpm max. and that includes swing pipe in a run of more than 2'. Yes, you can get 6+ gpm through swing for a full circle rotor, but not if you have a very long run of it.
If you get 6gpm from one bib with both open, then you probably have the 13 that the water district is telling you is supposed to be there.
Where are the TX lic. irrigators at for this thread? Doesn't anyone size pipe anymore? Yeah, I know I don't either. The cost of reducers and inventory keeps it from being cost effective. (do see lots of cheap !^%@$!% that use 3/4 instead of 1
)
If you get 6gpm from one bib with both open, then you probably have the 13 that the water district is telling you is supposed to be there.
Where are the TX lic. irrigators at for this thread? Doesn't anyone size pipe anymore? Yeah, I know I don't either. The cost of reducers and inventory keeps it from being cost effective. (do see lots of cheap !^%@$!% that use 3/4 instead of 1
)1/2" for the terminal laterals up to about 5 gpm, then 1" for the rest of the zone to the valve keeping zones around 15 gpm. Only one bushing to stock, a 437-130 1x1/2 SpS bushing.
On larger systems use 1/2", 1" and 11/2". We don't see the need for 3/4" and 11/4" as usually the amount of footage used in those two sizes is too small to justify stocking the fittings and the time to hunt up the right fitting.
As for the 3/4" systems - that usually screams plumber install and it's usually sch 40, but they'll try to water the whole front yard on two zones and wonder why they have dry spots.
Jerry R
On larger systems use 1/2", 1" and 11/2". We don't see the need for 3/4" and 11/4" as usually the amount of footage used in those two sizes is too small to justify stocking the fittings and the time to hunt up the right fitting.
As for the 3/4" systems - that usually screams plumber install and it's usually sch 40, but they'll try to water the whole front yard on two zones and wonder why they have dry spots.
Jerry R
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Thanks for all your replies. I only have one hose bib so I cant open more than one. I have about 35' from my main to my home looks to be run in 3/4 cooper. My home is old built in the 1800's. I was also thinking it could be corroded. Is there a way to check for this. It just so happens that my water company is in the process of relining the main in my neighborhood. They will be running a temporary secondary service for a while. This will give a chance to replace the pipe with no down time. I would be able to take my sweet old time. OK all you pros give me your expertise. THANKS EVERYONE
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If 65 psi is the pressure you measure while at the same time running 6 gpm, it follows that there will be more gpm at a lower pressure. If it happens that its your static pressure, you aren't going to get that 13 gpm anyway, not at a pressure that will do you any good. (what is the static pressure?) Don't worry too much about a corroded copper supply line. It doesn't date that far back. How big a property is this? A 35 foot supply main implies a smaller lot. Since reliable rotors can work with as little as 1 gpm, you can get by with what you have.
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I must be the odd exception then. I don't use 1/2". I also don't usually have laterals on a sprinkler line, as I prefer to pull the line directly over the head and use a swing pipe flex pipe.bicmudpuppy said:Where are the TX lic. irrigators at for this thread? Doesn't anyone size pipe anymore? Yeah, I know I don't either. The cost of reducers and inventory keeps it from being cost effective. (do see lots of cheap !^%@$!% that use 3/4 instead of 1
I typically run 1" until the last two heads, and then bush down to 3/4".
Of course, we are finishing up a commercial system that gets 100 gpm/100 psi at the meter. We used a 3" main, and 2" sprinkler lines and have zones with over 50 heads on them, with awesome dispersion and coverage.
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65 PSI is my static pressure. My local water company is going to check to see what they have on record to which supply line was used. They told me that even though I have copper run to meter in the basement that does not mean somebody could have tapped into the old galvanized pipe. And yes my property is small I live on a corner 45 degree. Front of house lawn area 60x25 Side 80x25 Both measurements are over lapping the corner. I did do some research first on this before I started asking questions. But by no means do i fully understand all the proper ways of doing this. Since this is the first time i have ever looked in to doing this. I have replaced many heads and adjusted & repaired many damaged lines. So with that said if i am working with only 6 gpm how many heads can be run in one zone. My sprinkler supply guy is telling me only two and that might not even be good enough. From what everyone on here is saying it seem like 6 gpm is not as big of a problem as he is telling me. Thanks everyone for your help you guys have been great.
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You can use 4 PGP's with #3 nozzles on a 6 gpm zone. At 60 psi they will flow 1.3 gpm each with a throw of 32 feet. You can even go with smaller nozzles than that if you need to add more heads. Just keep in mind that to get the correct amount of water to the turf, you'll need to increase the time each zone runs. It's really not rocket science, once you know your GPM and pressure, you can design any system to match it.AVERDEROSA said:
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OK, those numbers are right from the Hunter chart....anyone ever see this nozzle perform that well.....??Grassmechanic said:
A #3 Hunter nozzle throws what? 24'? That's what I would say in a real setting install. Maybe a tad bit less, but usually 65 static means 50 operating pressure, and I don't think you will get 22' with a nozzle smaller than 5. The PGP is the industry standard head, but in reality, the low pressure and low gpm nozzles for the PGP stink. If you want a Hunter rotor and you want to run low flow, spend the extra buck or two and put in an I-20, but I still don't think you will get 30'.
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I've been reading a number of manuals from IA on site design and service/repair. When you say you don't size pipe anymore, am I wasting time with working GPM/Flow/Heads on a line formula's that they show? Are you running one size pipe for the main and to the valves and zones?bicmudpuppy said:Where are the TX lic. irrigators at for this thread? Doesn't anyone size pipe anymore? Yeah, I know I don't either. The cost of reducers and inventory keeps it from being cost effective. (do see lots of cheap !^%@$!% that use 3/4 instead of 1
Ace
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From an inventory stand point, I don't find it cost effective to stock reducers and fittings for pipe smaller than 1". I also install a lot of poly lateral systems and in those I won't use less than 1". For larger systems, I still size pipe and there is no substitute for the knowledge one gains if you understand sizing pipe down to 1/2". Also, I like blazzing saddles and as stated above, there is very little benefit to sizing down to 3/4 and they don't make saddles for 1/2" pipe. Using 1" pvc as my smallest pipe size on rigid systems works for me.AceSprinkleRx said:
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The thing about the performance info provided by manufacturers is that folks need to keep in mind that the pressures and flows are tested at the head, not at the end of a 100' run. There will always be pressure loss through backflows, meters, pipe, etc. The heads will perform as advertised, providing the pressures at the head are correct.bicmudpuppy said:
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