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Built in Backflow preventors

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#24 ·
GrazerZ said:
It is what it is, sorry if you don't like it. I called, thats all I'll say about it.
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Its not that he doesn't like it, its just that an atmospheric vacuum breaker will not work with a constant pressure line downstream of it.

EVER.

You need to use a Pressure Vacuum Breaker, A doublecheck or a RPZ.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
GrazerZ said:
It is what it is, sorry if you don't like it. I called, thats all I'll say about it.
Click to expand...
He's not making a judgement he's giving you factual important info that you had better listen to.....,regardless if the plumbing inspector said it was OK on the phone.
he was not on site to actually inspect the set-up
that makes YOU responsible if someone should get sick or die from backflow into the household water system.You can say "Hey I called and asked" but that wont hold up in court if you get sued by the homeowner cuz his kid or infant got sick because of faulty uninformed work done by you.
He may of missunderstood you or did not know what he was talking about
but you can rest assured that these guys DO know what they are talking about.So if I were you I would listen and fix that job the way it should be done,to protect the homeowner and his family not just to follow what some diphead tells you on the phone.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Wet_Boots said:
Do you have elevation in your favor, so you can locate a vacuum breaker (used downstream of the control valve, in accordance with the codes) higher than the drip lines?
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Yes I do most of the time and that's what I have been doing,or if I can I will go off another bib and run a stub out and bring the line up to a new bib to get it higher.
But sometimes there is a cement walkway on one side and the drvway on the other side no way to get it in the ground.This is a brand new mnfctred home park so there are alot of these.It was just too hot to take my camera out with me today or I would have pics for you.
 
#27 ·
Its actually called a "hose bib anti siphoning valve", my bad. As for you She shovel, you have a way of frequently piping in a "yea what he said". I was trying to simply add to the discussion what I have been locally alowed to do. I'm not interested in a lecture. I do use RPZs. No I don't claim to know everything. its funny though how now that you have your question awnsered, you feel the need to judge others. Whatever. :rolleyes:
 
#28 ·
GrazerZ said:
Its actually called a "hose bib anti siphoning valve", my bad. As for you She shovel, you have a way of frequently piping in a "yea what he said". I was trying to simply add to the discussion what I have been locally alowed to do. I'm not interested in a lecture. I do use RPZs. No I don't claim to know everything. its funny though how now that you have your question awnsered, you feel the need to judge others. Whatever. :rolleyes:
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Going back to what was said above. Anti-Syphon valves only work if the line after it is not a constant pressure line.

I'm sure the inspector you spoke to on the phone did not realize that you were going to put more valves downstream of it.

But hey, go ahead and endanger your clients. Its only a little lawsuit.
 
#29 ·
Installing correct backflow protection is a basic CYA concept. And if you do want to CYA, you politely listen to any incorrect information you may receive from the municipal officials who can say pretty much anything without repercussion, then go ahead and do the right thing, even if it costs you more in time and material. For a three-zone job on flat ground, fed by a hose bib, individual antisyphon zone valves could have been used, for very little additional money.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Not judging you at all Grazer,and you are very wrong about me "just piping in to copy what someone else has said or go"What he said"I was trying to let you know that there can be problems with what inspectors will tell you over the phone,if in fact you take that advice or not is not my worry so be it,but you just judged me not I you...so get that streight.


Now You guys have confused me..An AVB can't be used After a valve (or downstream of a valve )or it renders it useless correct?
But OK I am now totaly confused sorry
 
#31 ·
sheshovel said:
Not judging you at all Grazer,and you are very wrong about me "just piping in to copy what someone else has said or go"What he said"I was trying to let you know that there can be problems with what inspectors will tell you over the phone,if in fact you take that advice or not is not my worry so be it,but you just judged me not I you...so get that streight.

Now You guys have confused me..An AVB can't be used After a valve (or downstream of a valve )or it renders it useless correct?
But OK I am now totaly confused sorry
Click to expand...
The AVB must not have a shutoff valve AFTER it. The valve must be upstream of an AVB. That is essentially what an anti-siphon valve is. It has a built in AVB after the valve.

An Atmospheric Vacumn breaker relies on gravity for it to vent. In a pressure situation (valve down stream) it is possible for the vacumn breaker to NOT vent and the flow to be reversed. For example, your drip zone is not running, and there is a fire next door. When the fire department hooks in and creates the necessary flow to produce suction from your customer's meter, an AVB under pressure will allow the flow to reverse and not vent. If the AVB is floating on an open line, and the pressure reverses. the AVB will fall and vent. And yes, this means that every garden hose nozzle out there defeats the vacumn breaker on the hose bib.
 
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#32 ·
Even though an atmospheric vacuum breaker (and an antisyphon valve, as well) is rated for toxic backflow, you will sometimes find local ordinances prohibiting their use. Given their past and present mis-application, I can understand local disapproval.

Getting back to the original drip irrigation, and how to connect to a hose bib, I would look to thread a hose adapter into a brass tee, and work from there.
<img src=http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/1949/hosebibconnection29vw.jpg>
 
#33 ·
sheshovel said:
Not judging you at all Grazer,and you are very wrong about me "just piping in to copy what someone else has said or go"What he said"I was trying to let you know that there can be problems with what inspectors will tell you over the phone,if in fact you take that advice or not is not my worry so be it,but you just judged me not I you...so get that streight.

Now You guys have confused me..An AVB can't be used After a valve (or downstream of a valve )or it renders it useless correct?
But OK I am now totaly confused sorry
Click to expand...
An AVB will not work if the line after it is a constant pressure line. You need to use a PVB in that scenario.

EDIT: Didn't realize theres another page, Bryan and 'Boots beat me to it :)
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
Ok so this is how I am going to do it,or them.Tee off the freezeless silcock witha 3/4"galv tee.Install a reg hose bib of one side of the tee,then run a hardline off the otherside to a place where I can bring up a drip hook=up and do the following..3/4"adaptor onto line,a threaded 90,nipple,batt-op timer,AVB,or RPZ,filter,Water pressure reg,drip adaptor then the drip line out.I will have to ignore the freezeless silcock and render it useless,no hard freeze there anyway.
And there are no meters every line is run from a main line from the well and the fire hydrents are hooked into a BIG line that runs from a 50,000 gallon holding tank way above
the park up on the hill.The owners don't pay for the water,everyboby gets it free from the well.
 
#35 ·
Galvanized is a bit cheesy. For drip, you might do something like I pictured, but with a 1/2" brass tee. Not having the drip line buried works against you, since you won't have any buried pipe to anchor your plumbing in place. Elevation permitting, I would be using a 3/4" antisyphon valve with a battery operated solenoid, like Rainbird's Easy-Rain, or Nelson's Solo-Rain. Pictured is Rainbird's AS valve with drip components downstream. With careful selection of pipe and nipple lengths, you could probably strap the oulet piping to the sillcock, and get extra stability. If the battery-operated valve you've been using works in all positions, you could install it with the flow upwards, and top it with a ordinary atmospheric vacuum breaker.
Image
 
#36 ·
fwiw, i am just finishing up irrigating a mobile home park. 3 inch main lines, constantly pressurized just for irrigation. Not potable water.
then put valves scattered around the park. then we used mp rotors.
Much simpler and cheaper and more reliable then dinking around with hosebibs.
YMMV.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
I don't think you understand drmiller100 these systems are for individual gardens and plantings front sided and back not large communal areas.Wetboots I have been installing DIG 's in areas too.I just wanted to know about the backflow sillcock thing cuz somebody told me that was all that was needed for backflow prevention and I knew better.I will use all you guy's suggestions and or combination thereof and see how the homeowners are going to react to what it looks like.It's like they don't want to see a valve and all that stuff hanging off the side of the house yet God forbid if you suggest they pick up a hose and water by hand once or twice a week,I mean it's not that much stuff to keep watered.
 
#38 ·
Hey, it's California, and if someone objects to the sight of backflow protection, ask them where they moved in from. The Golden State is lousy with visible backflow prevention. They got it and they flaunt it. Against a non-code install without backflow protection, you can't compete in the looks department. Of course, with lines crossing driveways, do looks really matter? Too bad the pipe and drip stuff can't be buried.
 
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