has anyone used spears #477 010 manifolds? Us and a bunch of other companies had some bad luck with the manifolds cracking at the castings . John Deere landscapes told us there was a recall on this part ,but won't tell you until you have the problem. they told us the product is now over seas and the product is not as good as it use to be.
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sprinklerhead
Don't use spears manifolds recall
has anyone used spears #477 010 manifolds? Us and a bunch of other companies had some bad luck with the manifolds cracking at the castings . John Deere landscapes told us there was a recall on this part ,but won't tell you until you have the problem. they told us the product is now over seas and the product is not as good as it use to be.
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They seem to crack on the line of the castings. notice the very right valve mainfold is cracked
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We sell top quality sprinkler sytems , we double & triple clamp all mainlines, but you only have 2 years of experience to know . You make yours ? you mean with poly fittings or regular tees ? anyways i just wanted to warn people before anyone gets screwed.Do you make your own sprinkler heads to?JonHolland said:
I have little faith in male threaded valves. Since they require a manifold with FPT fittings, it's a recipe for disaster, or extreme aggravation at least, depending on warranty. The breaks, if and when they occur, will almost always be at the female threads. I can think of no more expensive single residential repair job than the replacement of a broken manifold.
Because a homemade manifold tee (or cross) has a sch 80 TOE nipple glued into a sch 40 tee (or cross) it will be stronger than a purchased manifold tee. And with the crosses, you get to economize on valve boxes, too!
<img src=http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpg>
As for multiple clamping on poly, I still double-clamp at the valves, and for any mainline fittings. I don't think it means the quite the same thing as when the poly fittings had the smooth shoulder behind the barbs, where a clamp would make a real difference in preventing the pipe from coming off the fitting. If they aren't serving a real purpose, consider them an offering to the sprinkler gods.
Because a homemade manifold tee (or cross) has a sch 80 TOE nipple glued into a sch 40 tee (or cross) it will be stronger than a purchased manifold tee. And with the crosses, you get to economize on valve boxes, too!
<img src=http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpg>
As for multiple clamping on poly, I still double-clamp at the valves, and for any mainline fittings. I don't think it means the quite the same thing as when the poly fittings had the smooth shoulder behind the barbs, where a clamp would make a real difference in preventing the pipe from coming off the fitting. If they aren't serving a real purpose, consider them an offering to the sprinkler gods.
I think triple clamping is a little ridiculous since I've NEVER seen a mainline leak with just a double clamp... but then I think you're missing the point when you clamp them all in a row and not one on one side and one on the other... the weak point in the clamp stays in the same spot even when you clamp it three times...
also... I can't stand new systems that have manifolds glued together... If it cracks then you have to replace the whole thing... we usually use the spears threaded tees but this last summer we tried the dura swivel tees and liked them a lot... they save A LOT of time
also... I can't stand new systems that have manifolds glued together... If it cracks then you have to replace the whole thing... we usually use the spears threaded tees but this last summer we tried the dura swivel tees and liked them a lot... they save A LOT of time
I have more than two years experience. We don't make manifolds in one valve box... period. Of course when we're installing PVC and mainly 2" and 3" valves it's kind of hard to get them into one valve box.sprinklerhead said:We sell top quality sprinkler sytems , we double & triple clamp all mainlines, but you only have 2 years of experience to know . You make yours ? you mean with poly fittings or regular tees ? anyways i just wanted to warn people before anyone gets screwed.Do you make your own sprinkler heads to?
This is why I shy away from prefabricated things. I don't even like prefabricated swing joints. I like the control I have on what goes where. Then if something goes wrong I have only myself to blame.sprinklerhead said:
Boots... I always get cracked up when you post this picture.Wet_Boots said:And with the crosses, you get to economize on valve boxes, too!
I'm assuming that the freeze damage only occurs on a system that hasn't been blown out yet?BSME said:
You could get freeze damage in a properly-winterized system if water leaked past a defective shutoff valve and didn't have a pathway to drain out of the system. Having had one cracked manifold fitting very long ago was enough for me to change the way I built them, to never again to have female-threaded PVC in them, even if that doesn't allow me to use MPT X Insert Barb valves.
I will now list all the shutoff valves you can absolutely depend on to never ever leak -
I will now list all the shutoff valves you can absolutely depend on to never ever leak -
QUIT IT!!! You're killing me...Wet_Boots said:
How do customers take this? They have their systems blown out and then still get freeze damage from a weeping isolation valve.
I have a friend in Oregon that blows his system out and then stuffs straw into the valve box for insulation. He swears this works. Comments?Wet_Boots said:
If you assume a leaking shutoff valve, then ways to configure the plumbing will suggest themselves. I like to have a boiler drain left open all winter long. That's usually good enough. When the system plumbing includes above-ground backflow preventors, an immediate drain opening where the plumbing exits the building makes sense.
I can understand triple clamping the main line. But I cannot understand triple clamping of any fitting after a valve. Please refer to the picture above, it is the one of the manifold with the gigantic valves (100DVJTMB). Why would you waste time and product, when you are triple clamping (and not alternating) AFTER the valve????? I also install a professional system, but I refuse to throw extra product in the ground or pay for unecessary labor, for poor workmanship. But you are your own boss, maybe your profit margin is high enough to give away extra product and free labor but mine IS NOT. I will do quality work and professional work but not free EXTRA work.
yea if there is a spigot or drain cap right where the line comes out of the house I leave that open for the winter in case anything drips..
gatevalves are the worst... if there's a gate valve and there's a cap on the inside of the house I'll leave that off with a bucket underneith it...
sometimes it's obvious the shutup valve is dripping after you winterize it... I'll just leave that cap off and tell them about it.. I then leave it up to them to call a plumber to get it fixed... most of the time they end up just leaving that cap off all winter and a lot of the time it'll stop dripping after a week.... weird
gatevalves are the worst... if there's a gate valve and there's a cap on the inside of the house I'll leave that off with a bucket underneith it...
sometimes it's obvious the shutup valve is dripping after you winterize it... I'll just leave that cap off and tell them about it.. I then leave it up to them to call a plumber to get it fixed... most of the time they end up just leaving that cap off all winter and a lot of the time it'll stop dripping after a week.... weird
I REALLY like 'boots list. As to gate valves, I was taught there really are only two kinds....those that leak and those that are going to leak. A gate valve is not a positive off in my book, ever. A drain or blow out, preferably just past the backflow, is a great place to leave the line open or partially open for the winter. Several years ago, I mysteriously had a bunch of globe angle shutoffs that I didn't get completely off. (strangest thing, I had never had even one before and I haven't had one since, but that day, I must have been stupid and left 4 in a row just short of off.) Fortunately for me, I always leave the blow out open and I got phone calls from each of them complaining about the lake by the shut off in their yards. Back tracked in the dark that afternoon/evening and just to be safe blew through each one one more time too.BSME said:
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I build my manifolds out of regular PVC fittings. Nobody uses poly out here. If your going to triple clamp, at least alternate them.[/QUOTE]
my bad you guys use pvc , i do the same when i have pvc systems . why not use black poly? it withstands hot/cold temps and its flexible for ground movement. I did about 20 jobs down in florida with poly and they work great and there going on 10 years old ,all there companies use pvc also.
I keep the clamps all inline because they look better. And when a homeowners sees double &triple clamps in the valve box they think the system is alot better compared to the competitors. Homeowners like to see over done things like the clamps they feel safer. I don't make my manifolds with regular pvc anymore because it cost more and like the winterizing we have alot of companies giving these systems away so we have to lower our prices to get jobs. Its pretty sad out by us companies can barely get $250 a zone out here. There is a company that sells a 6 zone system for $1450.
6-7 zones is the basic size out here in the subs. I was getting $2000. for 6 zones 5 years ago now i'm down to$1700 just to compete.
How are the prices were all you guyz are? on just installing?
I build my manifolds out of regular PVC fittings. Nobody uses poly out here. If your going to triple clamp, at least alternate them.[/QUOTE]
my bad you guys use pvc , i do the same when i have pvc systems . why not use black poly? it withstands hot/cold temps and its flexible for ground movement. I did about 20 jobs down in florida with poly and they work great and there going on 10 years old ,all there companies use pvc also.
I keep the clamps all inline because they look better. And when a homeowners sees double &triple clamps in the valve box they think the system is alot better compared to the competitors. Homeowners like to see over done things like the clamps they feel safer. I don't make my manifolds with regular pvc anymore because it cost more and like the winterizing we have alot of companies giving these systems away so we have to lower our prices to get jobs. Its pretty sad out by us companies can barely get $250 a zone out here. There is a company that sells a 6 zone system for $1450.
6-7 zones is the basic size out here in the subs. I was getting $2000. for 6 zones 5 years ago now i'm down to$1700 just to compete.
How are the prices were all you guyz are? on just installing?
I keep the clamps all inline because they look better. And when a homeowners sees double &triple clamps in the valve box they think the system is alot better compared to the competitors. Homeowners like to see over done things like the clamps they feel safer. I don't make my manifolds with regular pvc anymore because it cost more and like the winterizing we have alot of companies giving these systems away so we have to lower our prices to get jobs. Its pretty sad out by us companies can barely get $250 a zone out here. There is a company that sells a 6 zone system for $1450.JonHolland said:SprinkerHead:
![Image]()
I build my manifolds out of regular PVC fittings. Nobody uses poly out here. If your going to triple clamp, at least alternate them.
6-7 zones is the basic size out here in the subs. I was getting $2000. for 6 zones 5 years ago now i'm down to$1700 just to compete.
How are the prices were all you guyz are? on just installing?
If you can't get enough dollars installing, you can throttle back on that aspect and look towards service and upgrades/additions, since cut-rate work never seems to get the support it needs.
There is some point to alternating clamping points, especially if you go back to the days of imperfectly molded insert fittings and worm-gear clamps, where you would double-clamp with the screws on opposite sides of the pipe. Strictly as window-dressing, it probably doesn't matter where the crimp clamps go.
(Pssst! What if the pipe on the bottom of that group of three has the leak?)
Poly pipe will never get a foothold in warmer PVC territory, since it costs too much.
There is some point to alternating clamping points, especially if you go back to the days of imperfectly molded insert fittings and worm-gear clamps, where you would double-clamp with the screws on opposite sides of the pipe. Strictly as window-dressing, it probably doesn't matter where the crimp clamps go.
(Pssst! What if the pipe on the bottom of that group of three has the leak?)
Poly pipe will never get a foothold in warmer PVC territory, since it costs too much.
What are you the only sprinkler co. in town? Were lucky if we get $400/zone. There are approx. 500 sprinkler co's. on Long Island which is not very big. This does'nt include all the plumbers,fireman,landscaper ect... that do it on the side. How many installs do you do a year?JonHolland said:
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