has anyone used spears #477 010 manifolds? Us and a bunch of other companies had some bad luck with the manifolds cracking at the castings . John Deere landscapes told us there was a recall on this part ,but won't tell you until you have the problem. they told us the product is now over seas and the product is not as good as it use to be.
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Don't use spears manifolds recall
sprinklerhead
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The glass-filled-nylon male threads would simply conform to the space they get forced into. Nylon plastic is strong, but it can 'flow' (which is why it got used for tire cord, and why those tires would 'flat spot' when first driven on cold mornings) - the glass fiber component provides needed rigidity, but the material is still softer than PVC, making it a better choice for male valve-body threads.PurpHaze said:
Same thinking for a the transition between brass and PVC - male PVC threads into female brass threads. Costs a bit more than the other way around, but much more reliable.
I guess I lucked out on these problems, since the Richdel (now Irritrol, and probably the first made with PVC) valves I started out with must have had slightly larger female-threaded ends than a standard pipe fitting has, if the amount of teflon tape sometimes needed on nipple and/or fitting threads (to prevent leaks) was any indication.
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Brings up another point after reading the article Jerry posted. I wonder if the threads are slightly different between male adapters and SCH 80 TOE nipples? I've seen some valves where the MA hardly goes in very far yet I can remove the MA and thread the TOE nipple in farther with more Teflon tape on it.Wet_Boots said:
Only time I've ever cracked an Irritrol Century Plus valve was when I did it on purpose. I took an old 3" valve body, put it in the vice and cranked down with Channel locks and pipe wrench until it cracked the valve. Knew that the amount of force I put onto it would never be used during normal installation though.
something no one has asked.....JonHolland said:SprinkerHead:
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I build my manifolds out of regular PVC fittings. Nobody uses poly out here. If your going to triple clamp, at least alternate them.
those wire nuts are not waterproof.. just regular nuts...you don't use them for your permanent connection do you???
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Toro? should stick to making lawn mowers and weed wackers! There junk .hunter & rain bird are a way better product! It was the peace of junk spears product that sucksWet_Boots said:
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They get enclosed in waterproof gelcaps. I usually do that after its all backfilled.YardPro said:
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Since a lot of Toro irrigation product was designed by Ed Hunter, would you also make the same claim for Hunter irrigation product? If anyone has an example of a Toro male-threaded glass-filled-nylon valve body causing that manifold fitting to fail, feel free to mention it.sprinklerhead said:
I stated how it's preferable to thread male PVC into female brass, instead of the other way around. That doesn't mean a lot of female PVC isn't threaded onto brass and copper male threads, and doing just fine. It's just that the room for contractor error is very much smaller. Same thing for threading PVC into PVC. I use female-threaded PVC valves, because that's the critical component of the combination, and the Richdel/Irritrol valves are proven with decades of field experience. A manifold tee will never match that track record.
In the early days of plastic valves, there were a number of attempts to use sprinklerhead plastic (ABS) with poor results. Lots of split valve bodies where they threaded onto the male manifold threads. Toro came up with stainless steel end collars for their valve bodies made with ABS.
Hunter could probably use glass-filled-nylon for their male-thread valve bodies, but they would spend more money in manufacturing them.
We don't need any honking big red signatures!
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WHat ed hunter? WHat about that junk maid by k-rain . that was a designer from hunter to... he made junk!!!
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The Ed Hunter that founded Hunter Industries. He sold his own irrigation company to Toro, and stayed on as director of design and development. Some of the Toro equipment he was involved with still surpass his later Hunter products in reliability.
I'll be asking the Hunter reps about their valves the next time I see them, and why they don't use glass-filled nylon for the male-threaded bodies. (I'll expect almost any answer but the obvious "the money")
I'll be asking the Hunter reps about their valves the next time I see them, and why they don't use glass-filled nylon for the male-threaded bodies. (I'll expect almost any answer but the obvious "the money")
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I had the pleasure of attending a seminar at the Southern CA Turfgrass Council yearly show back in the early 90's where he was a main speaker. The man had more vision and insight in the green industry than anyone I've ever heard or read.Wet_Boots said:
It's also my understanding that when he "retired" from Toro and started Hunter he was prohibited from developing similar competing products for a given length of time.
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How do you do a simple valve replacement with the valves manifolded so close to the piping? I like valves spaced out enough so a valve can be replaced if needed. I've had to charge customers an arm and a leg just because the fittings were so close no room was left on the line after cutting out the valve for replacement.
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Use female threaded valves.AssuredServicesCo said:
In the manifold that I posted there is enough room to rotate the valves off the manifold threads after you remove the solinoid.
Then use a repair coupling on the downstream side of the valve.
Well, actually Mr Hunter and Mr Kah worked for Toro, and then went their seperate ways. They were comtemporaries and worked on several patents together. They are both dead now, but there are still a lot of things we use in the irrigation industry that we can thank them for. I was lucky enough to meet both of those gentleman as well as Max Snoddy who founded Weathermatic and Telsco. Among some of his contributions was SDR pipe. Weathermatic was the first to extrude and sell SDR-26 and SDR-21 pipe back in the late 50's and early 60's.sprinklerhead said:
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What valves are you cutting out, rather than repairing? Diaphragm valves are very much repairable, even going back decades to various old brass models. As for removal of a single valve, even this crowded layout has sufficient spacing between valves to allow a single valve body to be unthreaded from the manifold.AssuredServicesCo said:
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Like Boots and Jon have stated there usually is enough room to spin a valve off. However, in 99.9% of the actual valve problems the body never needs replacing. Even if you decide to "replace" the whole valve the body can stay in the ground and just the bonnet and diaphram assembly are actually replaced creating basically a whole new valve. We refer to it as doing a "top end" in our area.AssuredServicesCo said:
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LOL, it was once suggested to me that 90+% of the patents used to actually make modern sprinklers are attributed to 4 or 5 people. Dr. "K" and Mr. Hunter are two of those people.PurpHaze said:
Anyone else enjoy reading some of these threads when the prejudice's over brand names vs. the actual product becomes prevalent? I think every brand has made a product I completely detest, and there is something I like in each product line too (well, don't stretch that to far to some of the obscure homeowner lines
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I have to agree. I'm not dead set against any one manufacturer. Like everyone else there are those products that depending on a certain application, our experiences and our needs just don't fit the bill.bicmudpuppy said:Anyone else enjoy reading some of these threads when the prejudice's over brand names vs. the actual product becomes prevalent? I think every brand has made a product I completely detest, and there is something I like in each product line too (well, don't stretch that to far to some of the obscure homeowner lines
Although I like Hunter products I'll be the first to admit that their original spray pop-ups were junk. Many were put in by district plumbers before we took over the program and it took a while to replace them. However, Hunter has replaced these with a reliable product in line with Rain Bird, Toro and others.
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The 'gotta have a complete product line' concept has meant for some real crapola, when a company that had one or two great products, filled out their roster with losers. I always cringed a bit when I hear the "What brand of sprinkler system do you install" question, and have to educate the customers on the matter.
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