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DFW Area Landscaper

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Our crews are supposed to distribute door hangers when they have no work to do. That means that for mowing crew #3, they are to mow 2 lawns on Tuesdays and then distribute door hangers the rest of the day. For crew #1, they are supposed to mow 11 lawns and distribute door hangers the rest of the day.

We pay $.10 per unit. We know exactly how many homes are on each street. One crew just isn't getting it done. They aren't lying to us. Like yesterday, for example, they mowed their 11 lawns and then delivered a whopping 112 door hangers. The other crew, who does this on Tuesdays, is just earning terrible pay. They worked last Tuesday, July 4th, for around 6 hours, two men, and delivered 911 door hangers.

I can tell if they really deliver the door hangers because it is impossible to deliver 1,000 of these things and not get a call, regardless of the time of year. I know this from experience. I can also tell exactly, through our record keeping and probing of clients when they call, if they are signing up as a result of our recent door hanger distribution.

I would like for the workers to earn more money when doing door hangers. The slightly empty schedule, combined with the pay-per-job method makes things bad if the schedule isn't at least 90% full. That is our job...to keep the schedule full. They in turn, do the labor for far less than full retail.

So, if anyone is still reading, here is the question:

Would you simply increase the unit rate from .10 to .11 or .115 or .12 OR would you keep it at .10 and pay a bonus for each new client that results from their work? How much of a bonus would you pay?

We like to keep our customer acquistion costs below $50 per client and right now, just paying $.10 per unit, our customer acquisition costs for the year are right at that mark. A $10 bonus would bring our customer acquisition costs to around $60. Last April, we experimented with a third party contractor who hires the homeless...the results were not very impressive.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper
 
#2 ·
I will some times pay my guys to hang flyers and pay 10 cents each. I don't want to step on your toes but you are trying to run a lawnservice not a flyer service or charity. There is no way I would send a crew out to cut 2 yards. You need to keep all of your drivers and cut back on your labors to drop a crew. This way when you get more yards you will still have your drivers and can seperate them out and add a crew back later. Last year I found my advertizing dollar wasted on flyers this time of year. When school goes back I may run another round to pick up the yards that had all of the starving students doing them, but not until then. you might be best off holding on to your advertizing dollar until spring and going heavy during the spring rush.

just my $.02
Good luck

Jason
 
#3 ·
I pay by the hour to distribute flyers when I use day labour it cost $13.25/hour.
and each guy can deliver about 500 in approx. 7 hours I think that's about 19 cents each. I can get flyers delivered in an adbag for 4.2 cents.

The only think I like about my door handles is that I design them with blank spots and put them through my own printer which prints addresses and prices on them in a word merge. But I'm starting to sour on it because it takes ME so much time organizing them not to mention inputing the info into excel. I could have delivered 4 flyers instead of one for the same price.

I would not want to pay ppl to delivery flyers that are unsupervised...
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
I don't think it's possible to keep good people around if they only have work for 4 days per week.

That was the deal we made with them when we hired them...when they have no lawns to mow they will have door hangers to distribute. If I can get them to distribute the door hangers, the schedules will grow..and they are growing...just not as fast as I'd like, mainly to crew number one's refusal/inability to get this done.

Crew number 2 is at 104.6% capacity right now. Everything runs so smoothly with that operation. It is perfect. It is a win/win situation for everyone. We need all crews at that level and that is only possible with door hangers. If we sit and wait for people to call from WOM/YP/Internet/SawTruckOut we barely keep ahead of the cancellations.

Door hanging & direct mail are the only two forms of advertising where you can work harder at gaining new clients.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper
 
#5 ·
DFW Area Landscaper said:
, mainly to crew number one's refusal/inability to get this done.
Click to expand...
Thats the crux of the matter. When I hire day labour they consider delivering flyers to be easy work compared to what their used to but the people I know who are experienced window cleaners won't do it because its beneath their dignity.

I do like that Idea though, don't go home early, deliver flyers. But I think I would supervise. Get all the lawns done in two days then deliver flyers for two day out of a cargo van or something. When I supervise I drop them off at corners and make sure they are working and delivering 100% of the time I pay by the hour though. I would never allow people to go unsupervised, the flyers will end up in the trash not all of them but.... you know what I'm talking about.
When I was an employee I wouldn't deliver flyers or wash the bosses care or do anything that wasnt what I was hired for. Younger guys might but I was a pro window cleaner but if I could make some GOOD money rather than the norm... who knows.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
If I have a crew leader who would rather do nothing than earn something, knowing full well that he will defenitely be laid off in November and have no work for four months, then that crew leader is telling me he doesn't really want to work.

As for supervising the crews, that is not something we will do. If a crew needs supervision, they need to find another place to work. We are not baby sitters.

The deal with this crew leader is, he is not lying about distribution by throwing them away and telling us they were delivered. He is just not motivated to deliver them. If the price is too low to motivate them, perhaps we are at fault. We have three crew leaders who do a good job of DH distribution and one who is not. If we are not paying enough, we need to correct it instead of expecting people to do hard work for next to nothing.

That is the whole point of this thread...to discus whether or not we should hold firm at $.10 per door hanger or if we should pay a little more. Abandoning the strategy is not an option for us at this time.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper
 
#9 ·
Dallas Turf said:
I don't want to step on your toes but you are trying to run a lawnservice not a flyer service or charity. There is no way I would send a crew out to cut 2 yards. You need to keep all of your drivers and cut back on your labors to drop a crew. This way when you get more yards you will still have your drivers and can seperate them out and add a crew back later.
Jason
Click to expand...
I don't want to pile on but I have to strongly agree. If you will not take the advise I want to be sure the newbies in the business reading this get the massage.

Having a gas guzzling truck and lawn workers delivering fliers is a poor use of your resources.

If there is not enough work park the truck cancel the insurance and have another crew work at 110%.

Pay a professional service that hires people to deliver fliers that do it all day long day in and out to do what they do. How silly would the Mc Donalds look if the cashiers were cutting grass because it was a slow day?

Look to the professionals in any industry and follow their lead. Do Brickmans guys pass out fliers? I have not seen any Vally Crest crews passing out fliers around here. I wonder if Jim's down under has his fellows passing out fliers.

I know you have a good business model and have always viewed your operation as very professional from what I have read. But I would be remiss if I didn't say I think your off track here.
 
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#11 ·
let them start there own busniness there not gonna cut grass for ever, everyone learns somewwere. If someone wants to go on there own they will not cause you showed them how to put fliers and get work. Not to sound like a smart azz but thats my 2cents. Any way if you got lots that are about 90feet wide avrg. How many you think one guy can put out per hour on the front door?
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
We have far more work than two crews could possibly do. One crew is at 104%, one crew is at 89.5% and the newest (expansion) crew is at 75% capacity. Parking one truck (downsizing) is not the correct solution here.

As for the comparison to Brickman, it is not equal. Residential and commercial landscape maintenance are two totally separate industries with very little in common.

We wouldn't feel good asking our workers to stay home on days that we don't have enough work for them to do. They might tolerate it, but in our opinion, it is a ****ty thing to do and we simply don't want churn with our workers.

As for outsourcing the door hanger distribution, we experimented with that in April. The entire thing is ugly. First, you have a contractor making promises he knows won't be kept. By that, we know from the very beginning that a certain percentage of these things are going in the trash, but we don't have any idea what that percentage is. The contractors all charge around .10 to deliver these and they have a middleman. My workers are paid .10 each and we struggle. What it boils down to is, you have a sweat shop operator who's employees are paid so well they are literally homeless. The postal service would charge around .24 to deliver postcards in bulk...not an option in this business. Yellow pages and other forms of advertising simply aren't enough to get us where we are trying to get in terms of volume.

The whole point of the thread was to find out if anyone else thought increasing CAC's (customer acquisition costs) to ensure that workers are better compensated on door hanger day seemed like a smart or stupid move. We decided today, and relayed it to the crew leaders, they will get a $10 bonus for each client who calls within two weeks of the distribution and references our door hanger. We've been asking every client how they found us when they sign up for service and commit to six cuts or a chemical program for over a year now. With our record keeping, this will be fairly easy to manage.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper
 
#13 ·
I understand your challenge DFW. Right now, you have too much work to cut a crew but not enough to keep them busy 100% of the time in production work. How about this: You tell the guys that whichever crew gets the most calls from their door hangers during the month, you will draw a name out of that crew and give that person a day off with pay. Your numbers would support this and I think it might encourage the guys to put out more flyers. Going over 10 cents a hanger, IMO, would just be too expensive when you could outsource a lot cheaper.
 
#14 ·
I appreciate your dilemma and you are right the brickman comparison may be a bit off, but as I understand it you are a tweener. Doing residential but operating it like commercial. I have read many books on business management and worked with a very good business coach for a couple of years and one thing that is reiterated time and time again is that You should be doing the business of the business you are in and subcontract everything else.

I can't speak for your guys or mine because I have not asked them but I would feel degraded if I was asked to pass out fliers when I was hired to mow, and would rather go home.

You are a lawnmower man, that is your world, that is where you are most productive. Set aside some time to work on the big picture. That is where a entrepreneur has value to the company. I would look for that quantum leap of improvement in your business that will increase productivity. Don't spend your valuable time figuring out the most cost effective way to pass out fliers. You are stepping over $$$ to save dimes.

If you want a better answer ask a better question. The questions I would be asking is
  • How can we do more production with two trucks?
  • How can we get more business ?
Put the whole flier thing out the window. You are spending $ 50 to get a new client. How about offering a $50 credit to existing clients who get you new work. Pay it $10 per month as long as the new client stays until the 50 is paid off. How about running split crews on one truck drop one or two guys with a small trailer on a street and come back for them in a couple of hours. I have used golf carts and tiny trailers and doubled my production with out the expense of a another truck, in another business in another life. Too bad I didnt own that company.

I know it seems like getting the guys to do the fliers is the answer but sometimes you cant see the forest for the trees. Maybe you have already thought of and tried some of these things but I am positive you can come up with a better solution and that is how businesses really grow. Quantum leaps not baby steps.
 
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Discussion starter · #16 ·
I'm curious to know how other residential companies handle these growing pains. You decide over the winter to add a new crew for the next season, but the only problem is, you don't have any customers for them.

So what do other companies do with idle capacity while the mowing schedule is in growth mode? Do you just send your workers home with no pay?

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
As for outsourced door hanging, we are actually better organized at this than the contractors.

When a client calls and signs up, we can enter their address in a spread sheet and see the exact date that we delivered door hangers on that street and what crew leader had the responsibility. The spreadsheet also classifies that house as either poor, middle class or wealthy. The spreadsheet also allows us to tell our crew leader "this is the area we want you to distribute and this area will require 782 door hangers." There is no, "grab a thousand of these and come back and tell us how many you distributed." If it is marked on the list as distributed and there is a secret shopper on that street, you better believe the story will check out or someone has some explaining to do. Occassionally, we'll drive through the neighborhoods in the evenings and we know our crew leaders are not lying to us. They know we have secret shoppers planted around town that we'll be e-mailing.

With the contractors, you get "Well, we'll be starting in the north part of the town within the next week and working our way south." That is about all the detail we get.

One contractor who sold spaces on a door hanger, like 8 spaces on front and 8 on back, came by the house this spring to sell us advertising. He said he was going to deliver all of our town, with the exception of the poor neighborhoods. The problem is, he said he was going to print 8,000 door hangers and we knew that even excluding the poor neighborhoods there were about 15,000 homes. He said he was going to sub-contract the distribution to one of these firms that hires the homeless. We were not impressed but because he cut his price in half to get us to at least try it, we did. Lesson learned...the hard way. Another form of advertising that doesn't work.

We are through experimenting. We know what works and what doesn't. Amazing that most small businesses don't ask their clients how they found them today.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper
 
#18 ·
I got ripped by a smaller flyer distributer once. He wanted to meet in a robin coffee shop rather than their business office (they did have one but it was small). They told me they had the right to put flyers in apartment buildings and when I asked how he said they ask the care takers or someone will let them in. It sounded fishy right there but I went for it anyway. I had them deliver flyers for apartment window cleaning and I did get call 5 calls from 1 building none from the next two or three. I think they only delivered 20% of my flyers.

But now I use a company that delivers community newspaper every week to every house. they also deliver adbags, thats where I go in. very reliable and a huge office. I can pick areas that subdivide neighbourhoods. I know exactly how many homes in any given area and exactly what day they get delivered. 4.2 cents each.


as for do you send ppl home early...

DFW do you pay them with piece work like you with flyers?

I've never had crews working but when I was employed, yes, we would get sent home early. super busy in the spring and fall, slow in summer and completely dead in winter. BUT! the best window cleaning co. I ever worked for gave us a regular 35 hours a week (got off early on fri) so you might be onto something.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Yes, we pay piece rate on everything, from chemical apps to mulch installs to mowing and door hangers. It is a form of pay that seems to work well. We experimented with hourly pay in our second year of busienss and it was a complete disaster. A taks that would take a motivated piece rate worker 30 minutes to accomplish is a 1.5 hour job when they are getting hourly pay.

We certainly don't want our workers getting the kind of pay for door hangers that they get from revenue producing work. That is not a problem at $.10 per unit.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper
 
#20 ·
DFW,
A program that I have used, and is in wide use by an international pest control company goes like this:
Post cards, 3 different. One week apart. After the third post card, one week later, door hang a letter, a "hello, this is me, this is what I do" . If you continue to work the same areas in this manner, your name begins to stick. Having sold pest control services door to door for 17 years has taught me that consistency is the key. Hitting a neighborhood once never yielded results, repetition did. I do not know if this was the approach you have tried in the past, but here it is. There are programs you can purchase, quarterly, that divide homeowners by the demographic you desire. Hill-Donnelly, is just one. The program will merge your demographic search criteria, addressee and label your post cards, and compose and print your letters. You have the initial investment, but it is cheaper than the labor, gas, accuracy issues you have encountered thus far, I am sure. Also, those delivering your door hangers represent your company. Affluent homeowners move to where they do to avoid the homeless. I always trained my salesmen/women to be professional in action and appearance (no smoking in front of homeowners, or on the street they are working, shirt tucked in, etc.) Lawn service is very similar to the pest industry in that if you do not grow, you die. Hope this helps!
Chris
 
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