What year did the 120# chain show up on the s models. Specifically the s250. I am looking at a used s250 with 190 hrs on it. Fully optioned for 34,900. Is the price right or just normal.
Bobcat s250 questions.
zedosix
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Late last year, on the K-series models.
That price (in Canadian dollars, I assume?) looks pretty good -- under $32k (USD) for an S250 seems like a good buy. (Other people need to chime in on this...) It's possible that Bobcat's underpricing it to get away from competition from Cat and Case, but I think that $30,000 for a barely used S250 is really sweet. You'll need to check that the machine isn't that low for a reason, however.
That price (in Canadian dollars, I assume?) looks pretty good -- under $32k (USD) for an S250 seems like a good buy. (Other people need to chime in on this...) It's possible that Bobcat's underpricing it to get away from competition from Cat and Case, but I think that $30,000 for a barely used S250 is really sweet. You'll need to check that the machine isn't that low for a reason, however.
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I am demoing a brand new s220 in the morning, it has foot control, cab and heater. There is no A/C. Also missing the bobtach set up. He wants 40 canadian. Of course I would get the full warranty whatever that would be. Or......
I could pick up a used s250 with 190 hours, fully optioned including A/C. for 34,900 (29600 U.S.) On this unit there is a 90 day warranty only. The reason the guy didn't like the machine was due to the joystick control, seemed like his guys couldn't get used to it or something.
Any input would be appreciated.
I could pick up a used s250 with 190 hours, fully optioned including A/C. for 34,900 (29600 U.S.) On this unit there is a 90 day warranty only. The reason the guy didn't like the machine was due to the joystick control, seemed like his guys couldn't get used to it or something.
Any input would be appreciated.
Would you pm me on the 220 i am looking at buying new in the spring. I think the 220 would be a great machine i know it is the old 863. I think my price foe heat and air foot controls new around 33k. I like that series for grading i had a 763 and you could see out the side easier than my 185.
Mike
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It's a good deal, but there's quite a difference between the two machines... what do you plan on doing with the skid-steer?
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Ripping asphalt, excavating drivweays, loading trucks, carrying crushed stone, some grading etc. Lifting pallets or close to full pallets of brick. A pallet of tumbled stone weights in @ 3,900lbs. Lifting and placing boulders that sort of thing.
The new machine is approx. 46,000 The used one with 190 hours is 34,900. If you figure 8% interest on 34900 or 1.9% for 46000 its not too far apart now. Also no warranty or very little on the used. I won't expect the same service if I bring them the used one with any sort of problem. One last thing I need to think about is my guys are used to foot controls, and the used one has the joystick. If it was only me operating it, it would be a no brainer.
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If you'll be lifting pallets of sod, you may want to reconsider the S220 -- it won't handle 4,000 pounds of pallet well at all. (In fact, the S250 will also be on the fence with that sort of load.) If you're limited to Bobcat, I think the S250 is a good deal (if you can buy an extended warranty, that'd be awesome), but if you're not you may want to consider looking at Deere and Case, and possible New Holland.
Any other opinions out there on machine pick or pricing?
Any other opinions out there on machine pick or pricing?
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Tipping load on the S250 is 5881 lbs. That is one wet pallet of sod my friend.
I am testing a 268b tomorrow at the same time. Will make my decision by the end of the week. I am going to try and lift a 4000 lb pallet of brick in my 5 ton and see what the effect is. Hopefully my face won't be on the ground.
Zedosix,
I have to ask if you currently run or own a machine on a full time basis? The reason I ask is that the foot control machine and the joystick machine are two different animals.
I have over 11,000 hrs of seat time and can tell you that if you are used to foot control and grade with it you will not be happy with the joystick. If you've never ran a foot control machine and or have limited seat time, and got the joystick you would be happy with your purchase.
Over the last 11 years I have owned 9. I currently have three machines s220, and 2 t250's. I have owned an s250 it was a 2002 model. When they renumbered the machines from 863's to the new numbers they made changes to the machines to get away from some negative issues they were having.
They had made a pressure relief change in the drive system that I was not happy about, it was designed to bypass pressure at a lower pressure instead of bogging down the engine. The problem was it didn't take much to set it off.
All the skid steer manu. have, and use them so it's not a bobcat issue alone. I made them install the pressure relief valve for a 863. That made it acceptable, remember it is a 863 renumbered. They were also having problems with the Duetz engines The heads were warping, thats why they made some changes and lowered the rpm's. Unfortunately it didn't solve the problem.
If it has the Duetz you will have head problems. If it has Kubota you won't have any issues. Once again if you didn't have seat time in previous machines you wouldn't know about the pressure relief.
I don't know if they made any changes with the pressure relief in the manufacturing end.
To answer your original question about chains, the only issue you may have is if you run over the tire tracks. They have to be properly adjusted, they have to have enough slack to let the tires slip inside the track.
The drive chains do not have slack adjusters so they are not both exactly the same length. If the tracks didn't allow the tires to slip only one drive chain will be doing all the work. Eventually it will stretch and break no matter what size it is.
I know every one has their preference but I haven't found a machine that will outwork it and like the energizer battery, keep going and going.
I have demo ed the cat machines and being fly by wire like the joystick bobcat it just doesn't have the low end power at the track that you will get with the foot control bobcat. Like I said if you don't do finish grades this may not be a issue for you.
I forgot, someone made a comment about the s220 and the s250 being very different machines. The only big difference is that the s220 is a radial lift and the s250 is a vertical lift. The s250 is rated slightly higher in its capacity because of the vertical lift.
For those not in the know, radial lift means that the bucket, when raised is going up in a arc or radius. At the top of the arc, the bucket is close to the front plane of the cab. It means you have to get very close to load a tall truck. Not impossible though.
The vertical lift means just that. It raises the bucket straight up. Because of the different geometry of the vertical lift boom it can lift a little more weight.
The downside of the vertical lift boom is it's hard to see out the sides.
I currently have the 2004 t250 for sale if anyone is interested. You may pm me.
If anyone has any other questions I Will be happy to answer them.
I have to ask if you currently run or own a machine on a full time basis? The reason I ask is that the foot control machine and the joystick machine are two different animals.
I have over 11,000 hrs of seat time and can tell you that if you are used to foot control and grade with it you will not be happy with the joystick. If you've never ran a foot control machine and or have limited seat time, and got the joystick you would be happy with your purchase.
Over the last 11 years I have owned 9. I currently have three machines s220, and 2 t250's. I have owned an s250 it was a 2002 model. When they renumbered the machines from 863's to the new numbers they made changes to the machines to get away from some negative issues they were having.
They had made a pressure relief change in the drive system that I was not happy about, it was designed to bypass pressure at a lower pressure instead of bogging down the engine. The problem was it didn't take much to set it off.
All the skid steer manu. have, and use them so it's not a bobcat issue alone. I made them install the pressure relief valve for a 863. That made it acceptable, remember it is a 863 renumbered. They were also having problems with the Duetz engines The heads were warping, thats why they made some changes and lowered the rpm's. Unfortunately it didn't solve the problem.
If it has the Duetz you will have head problems. If it has Kubota you won't have any issues. Once again if you didn't have seat time in previous machines you wouldn't know about the pressure relief.
I don't know if they made any changes with the pressure relief in the manufacturing end.
To answer your original question about chains, the only issue you may have is if you run over the tire tracks. They have to be properly adjusted, they have to have enough slack to let the tires slip inside the track.
The drive chains do not have slack adjusters so they are not both exactly the same length. If the tracks didn't allow the tires to slip only one drive chain will be doing all the work. Eventually it will stretch and break no matter what size it is.
I know every one has their preference but I haven't found a machine that will outwork it and like the energizer battery, keep going and going.
I have demo ed the cat machines and being fly by wire like the joystick bobcat it just doesn't have the low end power at the track that you will get with the foot control bobcat. Like I said if you don't do finish grades this may not be a issue for you.
I forgot, someone made a comment about the s220 and the s250 being very different machines. The only big difference is that the s220 is a radial lift and the s250 is a vertical lift. The s250 is rated slightly higher in its capacity because of the vertical lift.
For those not in the know, radial lift means that the bucket, when raised is going up in a arc or radius. At the top of the arc, the bucket is close to the front plane of the cab. It means you have to get very close to load a tall truck. Not impossible though.
The vertical lift means just that. It raises the bucket straight up. Because of the different geometry of the vertical lift boom it can lift a little more weight.
The downside of the vertical lift boom is it's hard to see out the sides.
I currently have the 2004 t250 for sale if anyone is interested. You may pm me.
If anyone has any other questions I Will be happy to answer them.
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I am out of breath reading that. Welcome to the site. I have been in business for 21 years now and have owned 4 skidsteers to date. All thomas. I have narrowed my selection down to 2 machines. The new S250 which has the kubota motor and the cat 260 series. I much prefer the foot controls of the bobcat over the pilots of the cat. I have been using foot controls since my first skid steer in 1990. I don't have a problem using hand control since they are basically the same as my excavator. Its for the guys I am buying this machine since it is they who will be getting most of the seat time.
As far as the pressure release valve goes, personally I don't give a care, that is why I am buying new. You guys can talk all day about the mechanics of this and that, and the radial vs vertical, and my head spins. I like to buy new and not worry about what may go wrong, you know what if it breaks, I have another one to take its place until they fix the new one on warranty. Ok now I'm getting out of breath, have a good evening and once more welcome.:waving:
zed
As far as the pressure release valve goes, personally I don't give a care, that is why I am buying new. You guys can talk all day about the mechanics of this and that, and the radial vs vertical, and my head spins. I like to buy new and not worry about what may go wrong, you know what if it breaks, I have another one to take its place until they fix the new one on warranty. Ok now I'm getting out of breath, have a good evening and once more welcome.:waving:
zed
let me you that a s250 will lift full pallets of wet sod.I had a s250 and this thing will lift anything. You dont want a cat if you are going to be doing hard excavating lifting are anything hard at all. I have a 2004 246 and a s220turbo and the cat is gutless compared to the bobcat. The cat does not have good bucket edge visability like the bobcat. All you have to do is compare breakout forces in the cat is alot less than the bobcat. get the s250 you wont be sorry.Tipping load on the S250 is 5881 lbs. That is one wet pallet of sod my friend.
I am testing a 268b tomorrow at the same time. Will make my decision by the end of the week. I am going to try and lift a 4000 lb pallet of brick in my 5 ton and see what the effect is. Hopefully my face won't be on the ground.
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All you have to do is compare breakout forces in the cat is alot less than the bobcat. get the s250 you wont be sorry.[/QUOTE]
Bobcats brouchures don't tell you what the break out force is. Not sure why, I can't find those #'s anywhere.
Bobcats brouchures don't tell you what the break out force is. Not sure why, I can't find those #'s anywhere.
Very nice post, i guess since this will be # 800 post for me it should be worth while. Very good points, im getting ready to buy my 4th. bobcat this spring. I started in business in 94 with with 753 traded in 99 for 763 tradeed in 02 for 185. I am going to keep 185 now and get a 220. I do a lot of finish grading and my old 763 was sweet. I could see out the side better. Good point on loading but i could still load a steel bed tri-axle with it. The 185 is easier loading as you explained but the 220 is a bigger machine in general and will do fine loading. I am used to foot controls and will stay with them im getting to old to learn others. I was on a 300 all wheel with the joy stick, i would pay admission to watch some one grade with it. I have a lot of seat time also but looked like a complete domb ass on it.
Mike
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Zed,
With the low interest rate on the new machine, I'd think that would be the way to go. As you said, if the total cost over the life of the loan is close to the same, why not get the warranty, new technology.... and the little plastic bag over the seat
I've only been running skids for about 4 years now. I've had two different machines both with hand/foot controls. I've also demoed hand controls. I hope that my next machine is hand controls. I liked them much better, but for other more important reasons, I ended up with the machine with hand/foot. I can honestly say in about 1/2 hour, I was doing pretty well with the joysticks, and after a day in the seat, it was old hat. If you have decent operators, I really don't think it will be a problem. In 5 years, I think we'll have a hard time finding new iron with hand/foot controls.
Now, if you were to ask me to run an excavator with CAT controls -- LOOK OUT!
With the low interest rate on the new machine, I'd think that would be the way to go. As you said, if the total cost over the life of the loan is close to the same, why not get the warranty, new technology.... and the little plastic bag over the seat
I've only been running skids for about 4 years now. I've had two different machines both with hand/foot controls. I've also demoed hand controls. I hope that my next machine is hand controls. I liked them much better, but for other more important reasons, I ended up with the machine with hand/foot. I can honestly say in about 1/2 hour, I was doing pretty well with the joysticks, and after a day in the seat, it was old hat. If you have decent operators, I really don't think it will be a problem. In 5 years, I think we'll have a hard time finding new iron with hand/foot controls.
Now, if you were to ask me to run an excavator with CAT controls -- LOOK OUT!
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And a corresponding published difference in breakout force. The S220 also weighs a bit less than the S250 -- and there's a lot to be said about how much the two will be able to lift based on this weight difference alone.
zedosix, the tipping load is rated with a bucket. In theory, if you can find a 5,881lb object that fits in a bucket, the S250 will tip. It shouldn't tip at 5,880lb. However, when you move from a bucket to forks, you'll notice immediately that if you try to lift 5,880 pounds of anything (assuming it's evenly distributed along the tines, as a pallet would be), you'll tip. The tipping load of an S250 with forks is less than 4,400 pounds -- Deere has published a video showing just that.
Bobcat does not publish breakout force (unofficially) because it is not the only measure of a machine's performance. The original S250 was rated at 6,840 lb tilt and 6,300 lb lift, though this has decreased to 5,500 lb tilt and 5,000 lb lift with the K-series.
bobcatboy, breakout forces do not tell the whole story, unfortunately. If they did, Deere would be selling two to one to all the other manufacturers.
I'll bow out of this thread and let the real operators continue with their experience. I really feel you should demo the S220 on a pallet of typical weight before you decide that its lift-arm geometry and hour meter make it a better machine.
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S250
First test I put against the bobcat was to lift a full pallet of brick. This is the typical weight I will be lifting. Just under 4000lbs. Sitting on level ground and lifting up to about 3' in height, no problem, lifting any higher it will spill the load. One thing that really concerned me was a cracking noise or metal to metal noise when I was lowering the pallet. Not sure what that was. I greased it and it still creaked. Almost like the arms were twisting.
Pushing thru a pile of crushed stone was a breeze, even considering it was partially frozen. Just set the blade at level ground a couple of inches off and away you go.
All of us liked the familiarity of the foot controls, so it was a no brainer to operate.
Nice machine, I will try a s300 tomorrow to compare lifting.
Cat 268b
Lifts same pallet to 7' easily with no sign of tilting. Very impressive. I got the cat salesman to lift for me since I am not totally used to the controls yet. He was going to lift to full height when I told him to stop. Wow that almost sold me there. No strange noises from the arms on this one.
Same thing, pushed thru pile of crushed stone no problem at all.
Pilot controls are very touchy I find, this is what concerns me the most about cat. Would probably get used to it in time, I'm sure of that.
Visibility is not as good as the bobcats.
I like the interior better on the bobcat but the cats is more suited to the enviornment we are working in.
Pushing machine to machine was a good test of the two. The bobcat stalled before the cat. I will be happy with either machine here. I will just flip a coin.... someone call it please.
First test I put against the bobcat was to lift a full pallet of brick. This is the typical weight I will be lifting. Just under 4000lbs. Sitting on level ground and lifting up to about 3' in height, no problem, lifting any higher it will spill the load. One thing that really concerned me was a cracking noise or metal to metal noise when I was lowering the pallet. Not sure what that was. I greased it and it still creaked. Almost like the arms were twisting.
Pushing thru a pile of crushed stone was a breeze, even considering it was partially frozen. Just set the blade at level ground a couple of inches off and away you go.
All of us liked the familiarity of the foot controls, so it was a no brainer to operate.
Nice machine, I will try a s300 tomorrow to compare lifting.
Cat 268b
Lifts same pallet to 7' easily with no sign of tilting. Very impressive. I got the cat salesman to lift for me since I am not totally used to the controls yet. He was going to lift to full height when I told him to stop. Wow that almost sold me there. No strange noises from the arms on this one.
Same thing, pushed thru pile of crushed stone no problem at all.
Pilot controls are very touchy I find, this is what concerns me the most about cat. Would probably get used to it in time, I'm sure of that.
Visibility is not as good as the bobcats.
I like the interior better on the bobcat but the cats is more suited to the enviornment we are working in.
Pushing machine to machine was a good test of the two. The bobcat stalled before the cat. I will be happy with either machine here. I will just flip a coin.... someone call it please.
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Out of curiosity, why would the load have spilled if you raised above 3 ft? Could the machine not keep the forks level?
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Back tires came off the ground. Then load spilled, what I am trying to avoid is the tipping over of the bobcat when I pick up a pallet.
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