Condo Assoc. next to a couple other Condos I maintain want me to take over their system also. The system is a old Hyd. system of which I would readily admit I am a little "Vague" on the Knowledge side of these. My supplier says I should "Run" and not look back! Trouble is that I'm always intrigued to learn about something and maybe a little "Trial and Error" on the system can't hurt. Would appreciate any knowledge on old Toro Hyd. Systems. Thanks
Old Toro Hyd. System
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h20 guy
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Condo Assoc. next to a couple other Condos I maintain want me to take over their system also. The system is a old Hyd. system of which I would readily admit I am a little "Vague" on the Knowledge side of these. My supplier says I should "Run" and not look back! Trouble is that I'm always intrigued to learn about something and maybe a little "Trial and Error" on the system can't hurt. Would appreciate any knowledge on old Toro Hyd. Systems. Thanks
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I still service a few hydraulic systems and they are quite dependable.
You need a clean water source for the supply line and make sure the filter is in place and in good condition.
I don't think Toro makes hydraulic controllers anymore but they have a hydraulic converter that can be hooked up to any electric controller. You can still get the tubing, fittings, retainers and filters to repair it.
You need a clean water source for the supply line and make sure the filter is in place and in good condition.
I don't think Toro makes hydraulic controllers anymore but they have a hydraulic converter that can be hooked up to any electric controller. You can still get the tubing, fittings, retainers and filters to repair it.
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You can revamp the system to electric. Change the hydraulic valves and controller with wire and digital controller and you are set.Make sure you know where all the hydraulic valves are before you bid it.
We used to service a condo complex on 16 mile & garfield that had an old hyd system. Basically how they work is the controller is always supplying the valve with water through the small tubing, when the controller gets to the station on a cycle it releases water which activates the valve.
Basically with electric valves they are considered "normally closed" and are turned on when they are activated through the solenoid when the timer activates, it's the opposite with a hydraulic system as the valves are "normally open" and are closed by the pressure of the water from the controller.
Good luck, and I mean it !!
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Smaller hydraulic systems can use valves of a normally-closed type. Toro made both styles. Large systems almost always were using normally-closed valves, since they don't have have the limitations on the control tubing length that the normally-closed hydraulic valves did. (the Toro NC hydraulic valves also were called 'pin type' and the controllers that operated them did not need a connection to a water supply)
As long as you are getting time and material, enjoy the learning experience.
As long as you are getting time and material, enjoy the learning experience.
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4,109 Posts
The valves are usually very hard to find, Most I've worked on have a 3" pvc pipe over them with a black plastic Toro cap on top but are buried a couple inches deep. They can be tricky to winterize too.
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24,084 Posts
I'd be doing some research concerning water witchers. Nice clean retro!
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18,760 Posts
Better to put the conversion solenoids in the ground in a 10" valve box and run wire to the contoller.
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Unfortunately, mice like to chew on the tubing and sometimes aboveground and protected is the better choice.
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18,760 Posts
Above ground they are more susceptible to freeze damage. I guess you pick your poison on this one.
I run a 750+ head Toro Hydraulic system that is about 30 years old. I go to bed knowing and not worrying if the water is going out.
The newer electric upgrades are another story. they change the name irrigation to irritation.
Let me know exactly what you want to know and I can try and help you along.
The newer electric upgrades are another story. they change the name irrigation to irritation.
Let me know exactly what you want to know and I can try and help you along.
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i am member of hoa that recently purchased golf course in our community. course has old toro hydraulic operated irrigation system installed in early 80s. are there any owners manuals still available? i am trying to learn sbout the system tobhelp improve the operation which is now sketchy at best.
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736 Posts
Well welcome to the forum and way to revive an old thread!
First question: How much irrigation experience do you have? Reason why I ask is because hydraulic systems can be kind of tricky. Are there any specific questions you have about it? I've written up quiet a bit on them on the forum if you check into my previous posts. That being said, Yes there is information out there. The key is to truly understand that the electrically controlled and hydraulic controlled valve are different in how it opens and closes. Here's a nice Toro manual about that: http://grapids.com/HydraulicValves.pdf
The one thing missing from this manual are the electrical to hydraulic converters. (Just google Toro electric to hydraulic converter) Most of the controllers that operated irrigation from the 80s have long since broken. The converter just allows a controller that has normal electrically powered zones to operate solenoids which can operate the hydraulic water pressure. Remember, the hydraulic water in the tube is separate from the water that is in the irrigation plumbing underground.
You mentioned it being sketchy. What are you experiencing? Depending on the condition of the system, you may need to convert it (replace all valves with electrical ones, run the necessary wiring, etc.). Just to give you a heads up.
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I'm blown away that hydraulic systems are still in (sorta) service. I looked at one in a large HOA years ago, and told them it had had it's time, I would not work on it. The Pres said, "We called you, because of your reputation, hoping others could shoe horn the system back together, all we did was waste money." Yup, new system, working as advertised prolly twenty years ago.
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Most people are surprised and jump to replacing when a problem comes up. BUT I got 2 hydraulic properties, one with 48 zones and one with 48 zones and the other with 36 that have zone issues. Just like with 2 wire it takes a bit of getting use to the operation but it's not all that bad.
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How you blow out tubes?
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Surprisingly you don't. BUT AFTER the sprinklers have been blow out you turn off your hydraulic water source and disconnect it, empty the converter modules (remove the inlet and drain each row of modules), and open the bleeder on top of the Toro 252 valve to allow the water to come out some. I never heard of anyone vacuuming the water out of the top of the valve so I don't think there's a problem there. Of course at the beginning of the year you MUST purge air from the hydraulic or else you'll get some valves that won't close (much like a vehicle brake system).
The picture below is one of Toro's electric to hydraulic converters. Each row of 4 solenoids and valves blow it are purchased separately. These modules are actually turned 90°for the installation, the left side is the top, right side is the bottom.
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The hydraulic clock I took out was not Toro, it looked like something made by the Mattel Toy Company. Their problem, as I remember, was leaking tubes, almost impossible to trace, many tried, and failed.
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Moody made a hydraulic controller. I believe Nelson was selling it on the east coast.
The "how do you blow out hydraulic control tubes" question is answered with "easy, so long as the normally-open hydraulic valves have bleeders" - the Toro hydraulic valves being sold today all have bleeders - the "bullet" hydraulic models they sold long ago have no bleeders, so the control tubing never gets purged on them, and the valve can crack over the winter.
The "how do you blow out hydraulic control tubes" question is answered with "easy, so long as the normally-open hydraulic valves have bleeders" - the Toro hydraulic valves being sold today all have bleeders - the "bullet" hydraulic models they sold long ago have no bleeders, so the control tubing never gets purged on them, and the valve can crack over the winter.
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