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Dethatching with a Bluebird S22 Over seeder?

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Exact Rototilling

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Looking at the Blue bird web site it would appear that the Bluebird power rake is the better unit for dethatching. What is different other than the hopper on the S22 vs. the power rake? I'm not really super hot about offering dethatching since it's very labor intensive and I'm not sure if it will be profitable due to post clean up and hauling of thatch. In my area it's a spring event. hardly anyone does it in the fall.

Can the dethatching blades show below be used for the S22 :confused:

Has anyone used both units? Pros & cons etc.?

I'd really rather stick with offering over seeding alone . . . but if thatch is excessive when you overseed you have issues. Correct?

Wisdom from veterans much appreciated.

:waving:

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#2 ·
Just run the S22 seeder over the lawn without any seed to get thatch up then rake up the thatch, fill the seeder and seed the lawn. Just make sure you don't set the blades to low when thatching since you just want to get the thatch up, also never thatch a lawn when its to wet. I have never had their power rake with bagger but have rented one and it makes thatching much easier but I don't do much thatching so I just use the seeder and rake up the thatch.
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
I will be calling alamai.com Monday to get the definitive answer and specifically ask if you can use or even easily change the blade bar over to the tine or flail blade assembly with out too much trouble on the S22 seeder. I really can't see buying a specific power rake for such a short season here in the spring [3 weeks] but I can see buying the seeder and getting double use out of the machine as long as it can be switched over to the flail or tine blade assembly.

I'm really wondering if I'm really just better off just using my Mantis with the detacher attachment and possibly get the same type of attachment for my Honda FG 110 [faster tine rotation speed] attachment that does the same thing for another $140 and call it good. The flail blades or even the seeding cutter blades seem that they would do more damage to the turf than nessary, compared to the Mantis or Honda unit, unless you really are going to over seed after dethatching. I've been told that they are fine for small areas but for large lots they take too long.

Considering renting and the time spent chasing it down, returning it money wasted even if it's a deductible expense I just might be better off just using my Mantis or Honda unit and just being done with it already. So what if takes a few extra minutes to do a yard.

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#6 ·
Yes, the flail reel will interchange with the delta (slicer) reel. I have both for my Bluebird machine, though mine does not have the seed box. The delta reel is NO WAY a powerrake, it will bring up little if any thatch or dead grass, unless you want to drag the machine backwards. It slices right through it instead of pulling it up like the flail reel will.

The flail reel, quite honestly, will DESTROY a lawn though. Unless the turf is very healthy and well rooted it will strip what's alive right off the dirt along with all the dead stuff. I helped mine out by removing HALF of the flails and using some rubber hose to make new spacers between them. It's still very aggressive, but will do the job and not destroy as much.

I honestly refuse to powerrake. It's usually totally un-necessary (around here) and the same thing CAN be accomplished by using a slicer or aerator to open up the thatch layer and allow air and water to penetrate it, helping to start breaking it down. Powerraking dosn't remove real thatch anyway, only the dead/brown grass blades that you can see on the top.

*I will add, I have never used, or seen in person the spring tine reel. I think it would be a good option for powerraking as it would be less likely to tear up good turf than the flail reel.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Jason,

Excellent point. From the looks of the flail blades it would seem that they will obliterate the grass. That's why I think so many LCOs are down on power racking. I can't say I blame them. I'm really thinking the Mantis or Honda tiller attachment will do far less damage to the turf than the flail blades will. The spring tines look promising but I really doubt those would be on a rental machine.
 
#8 ·
We have the Husqvarna version of the bluebird dethatcher with the spring tine reel and it works great for pulling up thatch. It does have a couple of downsides to it, one being the spring tines do break and you have to have spares in your truck for on the site replacement. The other being time spent on the job compared to a JRCO front mount dethatcher, so you have to make sure your pricing is in line to the service being offered. On the upside, it does not tear up the healthy lawn.

There is a night and day difference in the amount of thatch that the walkbehind dethatcher removes compared to the JRCO. We sell both depending on the amount of thatch in the customers lawn and their budget as well. We don't have the seeder box on ours but the spring tines will scratch the surface on most soils deep enough to overseed afterward. For an example from last season, on a 30k sqaure foot lawn, we removed 135 bushels of thatch. Thats 15 loads in our 9 bushel bagger.

Jeff
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Just noticed that on the Bluebird web site that there is an 8hp Brigs engine on the Power Rake 22 but no 8HP on the 22 Seeders. Would I be better off buying the 8hp power rake and adding a hopper as an option?

Does one really need the extra 3hp? :rolleyes:
 
#10 ·
I have the PR22 with the bagger and it works great for dethatching with the flail reel. I have yet to get the bag to work correctly but Bluebird does have a kit that is supposed to allow the unit to collect better.

The flails, spring tines and delta reel all interchange, and you can get seed boxes for almost all of their units.

The reels also can be turned end to end so that when the blades get rounded you can get a new edge buy swapping.
 
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#11 ·
I wouldn't mind having a seed box for mine, but bluebird evidently lost their minds and some years ago started putting the seed box BEHIND the machine insteds of in front (like every one else does). For the life of me I can't figure out why they think that's how you are supposed to overseed. You always drop the seed and then run the slicer over it, the other way around is pointless...
 
#12 ·
I have use both. I wasn't overly impressed with the one that has the seeder on it. I've had the best luck w/ cutting the grass short, 2 & a half or 2 inches, thatching, clean up, and using a drop spreader for over seeding. It's a little more work, but like i said, I've got better results this way. The one w/ the bagger looks nice, but depending on how much thatch you lift you could be stopping too often to empty it.

If you don't want to thatch you could use a "verticut" machine. I've never been able find one to rent though. I have a friend who used one and loved it. It makes angled cuts in the yard & drops the seed in the slots. He got great results from it.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
cgaengineer said:
I have the PR22 with the bagger and it works great for dethatching with the flail reel. I have yet to get the bag to work correctly but Bluebird does have a kit that is supposed to allow the unit to collect better.

The flails, spring tines and delta reel all interchange, and you can get seed boxes for almost all of their units.

The reels also can be turned end to end so that when the blades get rounded you can get a new edge buy swapping.
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cgaengineer,

How much time does it take to take out the bar to flip the delta reels, flail bar, spring tines etc.? I asked my local Husky dealer and they said it takes 1 hour to swap it out. . . :confused: Seems like a long time to me?

I don't plan to get the thatch bag. Just planning to use a blower & suck it up with my Quick 36 with gator blades etc.
 
#14 ·
Exact, it only takes about 20 minutes at the most to swap one reel to the other. I have both the flail and delta reel for mine and swap them all the time in the fall.

Oh, and if you are planning on using the 36" WB with a catcher to pick up thatch, you are going to be much better off with a good RAKE. You will spend more time dumping the catcher (a small catcher like that) that you wil actually moving forward. A machine like a Z that has a 9 to 12 bushel hopper is usually filled in about a minute, but the lawns that require that are usually too big to rake unless you have a crew.
 
#15 ·
As long as you didnt have to remove the pulley from a rusty shaft like I did the process is a piece of cake and wont take long (Maybe 20-30 min). It would be useful if you could have a helper on the other end of the reel when putting it up into the frame because if you dont remove the bearing collars like I didnt, the assembly fits tight and both ends of the reel have to slide into frame at same time. When you reassemble the unit use never sieze on the pulley and shaft and you wont have to deal with rust like I did the next time you take it apart. Now is also a good time to replace bearings if worn as you are right there.

Like Jason said its messy and creates enough waste to fill several pickup truck beds so be prepared to rake, blow and suck up with mower (You will do all three). I found the easiest way to cleanup is to blow everything to a hard surface like a driveway and rake into a tarp.
 
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Discussion starter · #16 ·
Sounds great! I plan on marketing the de-thatching but I will charge a heavy price. What I've learned from all of you is that I will most definitely take my Mantis with dethcatccher attachment to each estimate and as part of the FREE estimate and I will do a 10' x 10' test patch. That way when I write up the estimated damages after calculating the square footage the home owner can see fairly closely what they will get and what I get to haul off. That way they will be more appreciative of the all the work that has to be done and the quantity I need to haul off and they will more willing to payup

Final question on the Bluebird / Husky . . . do I really need the 8 hp Briggs engine or in the 5.5 Briggs adequate? How about that Honda engine . . . ? . . . worth the extra $$$
 
#17 ·
I would get the Honda. I also would try to find the entire machine used. Likely if you find one it will be from a rental store and will lkely be a honda anyway.

If you dont mind haveing one shipped to you, you can get a nice unit from these people as I did www.powertradeus.com if you dont see it on their website call them. I think they charge about $150 for shipping and I paid $350 for my PR22 and it is in great shape (Used it all last weekend).
 
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#18 ·
Yes, used from a rental place is the way to go! I'm a fool and bought mine NEW! Yes, about $1,200 for it! (this was about 8 years ago) I have the briggs engine, 5.5 hp with both reels. I don't know of ANY other LCO around here that has bought one new... I guess I was nuts... But, it will last me for years and years and years!

The Honda engine is ALWAYS a good idea. Why they cost sooooo much more is beyond me though... Sometimes the price difference between Briggs and Honda is almost as much as a whole new Honda engine! Dosn't make any sence!
 
#19 ·
I'm late to the discussion, but... I just ordered the Husky version of the Blue Bird. The Husky rep talked me out of the flails and into the tines. I don't get the seeder at the back either, but I will give it a shot.

If I can use it for dethatching my zoysia lawns and as a fall overseeder, it will pay for itself, maybe even this year vs. renting. Aside from that, having the flexabilty to do it when I want to instead of runnin my arse off with a rental is a nice option.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
I don't mind used equipment as long as the prior user treats and maintains their equipment like I do. That's tough to find. I have enough maintenance issues with my 2 Toyota trucks to contend with before the snow melts so I think I'll pass on used unless a very sweet deal comes my way. It's been a huge PITA trying to find a used aerator Plugr or Ryan 28 within a thousand mile radius of me.

I think I will order out the S22 with the Brigs unless someone says the 8 hp Brigs is the way to go. Honestly if the renovation biz goes well I will trying to find every excuse to buy the Lawn Solutions Hydro drive unit down the road . . . but, I figure it can't hurt to get the S22 or PR22 as a primary machine. Will probably get it from Alamia.com unless there is a better source.
 
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cgaengineer
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