MTD Riding Lawn Mower won't drive

Rain Man av · Nov 6, 2008

MTD RLM mod # 144Q845H088 TMO-3398005 has a B&S 42A707 1237

Purchased this from a man who says it had been sitting a while....
The transmission has 14 forward speeds, 7 low, 7 high.

First thing I noticed is the variable speed pulley (VSP) does not variable. So I removed and cleaned and got the center to move easily up/down the shaft. Lubbed and replaced.

After freeing up the VSP, the mower now goes nowhere.

Before removing the VSP, the RLM would move, but only at the speed of a snail. Forward or reverse.

There is a spring tensioned idler pulley that maintains belt tension at the transmission. After releasing the brake, the belt tensioning idler pulley and the pulley atop the transmission, are touching....this was happening even before I removed the VSP for maintenance.

NOTE: there is a rod that connects the brake to the spring loaded arm that the VSP is mounted to, there is another rod that connects to that arm and continues backwards to my transmission speed selector on the fender, the speed selector rod was bent when I got the mower. So I straightened and reinstalled.... There is an adjusment ferrule (honest, I looked it up) at the end of the rod that connects to the speed selector assy.

Do I simply need to adjust the ferrule ? Are the belts the culprit ? Did the chicken really want to cross the road ?

Where should I start and what should I do....

More importantly, why does this happen to me..... LOL, jk.

echoman8 · Nov 6, 2008

Hi,

It seems to me that GS is ground speed.

VGS is variable GS.

Have you gotten the proper belt (oem belt).

Personally, I will try almost any aftermarket product until I know it will not work.

But sadly, belts are an exception. Choose the proper belt for the machine and from the correct manfacturer. There is a lot of stuff that goes into making a good belt.

echoman

Rain Man av · Nov 6, 2008

The belts on the machine are the ones that were on it when I got the mower. If it turns out I need new belts, then that is what I will do. but Until I hear from Retrobob, I ain't doin nuttin.

Thanks for your input.

pugs · Nov 6, 2008

Either get the right belts on it or make sure the ones that are on there are the correct ones before doing anything else. Pulleys touching each other should not be possible if the belts are correct.

Restrorob · Nov 6, 2008

OK Rain Man here's the deal,

Any time a belt is removed on one of these vari-drive systems (in your case the variator) you must re-center the belts back in the VSP.

This is done by putting the speed select shifter in the highest speed, With the fwd/rev shift selector in neutral push the clutch and start the engine. Then release the clutch FULLY for a couple seconds and you will feel the pedal slowly raise, then push it back in and shift into fwd/rev and release again. If the belts are correct for this unit it should drive as normal, After doing this re-check the idler that is now hitting the trans pulley and it should'nt be any longer.

BTW,

Just think.....If it didn't happen to you, You would have no reason to grace the pages of this informative site..... :clapping:

CCCya

Rain Man av · Nov 7, 2008

pugs said:
Either get the right belts on it or make sure the ones that are on there are the correct ones before doing anything else. Pulleys touching each other should not be possible if the belts are correct.

I verified that the front belt looped around the PTO is correct, I haven't been able to find the P/N on the tranny belt.

Albemarle Lawn · Nov 7, 2008

I would cash the MTD in now, scrap values are not likely to recover until the recession is over.

Rain Man av · Nov 7, 2008

ummmmmmmmmmm, sure,,,,,,, ok,,,,,,, why ??????????

Jay Ray · Nov 7, 2008

I had one and it started slowing down going up hills or mowing heavy grass. Then slowed down on level ground not mowing. Replaced all belts, then felt the tranny and you could cook dinner on it.

Rain Man av · Nov 7, 2008

Restrorob said:
OK Rain Man here's the deal,

Any time a belt is removed on one of these vari-drive systems (in your case the variator) you must re-center the belts back in the VSP.
CCCya

Did that, same problem....MOWER NO GO-WEE

Here is an update.

A) determined that both drive belts F/R are correct for the mower.

B) New belts say they are 7/8", the belts on my mower measure 3/4 in (wear)
COULD THIS BE THE PROBLEM ?

C) the flat Idler pulley (the one that touches the trainy) can be bolted in either one of two positions....it was bolted into the hole closest to the pivot point, I moved it to the hole fartherest from the pivot point. The mower wants to go, problem is, the Flat Idler Pulley now comes into contact with the variator (variable speed pulley) THE EXPLODED VIEW FOR THIS MOWER SAYS THE PULLEY SHOULD BE MOUNTED IN THE HOLE CLOSEST TO THE PIVOT POINT.

D) the ENTIRE variable speed pulley assembly moves up and down about 1/8 inch. IS THIS COMMON ?- SHOULD I SHIM IT ? DOES IT NEED REPLACING ?

E) What do you get when you drop a GRAND piano down a mine shaft ? A-FLAT MINOR.

F) The exploded view for the flat idler pulley says it is 3.5" dia.. but when I look it up for parts replacement, parts replacement is a 4" dia. WHAT GIVES? by the way, the one currently installed measures out at 4" dia.

G) also, the speed control rod link, (rear) is bending on me again. SHOULD THIS BE HAPPENING ? remember, it was been fairly severly when I got the mower, but I straightened it out. SHOULD I JUST GO AHEAD AND REPLACE IT?

any help with B, C, D, F and G above would be great.:weightlifter:

Restrorob · Nov 7, 2008

Here goes;

B) No, That amount of wear will not cause NO movement at all.

C) The pulley should go in the same hole shown in the parts diagram.

D) This is normal, Don't worry about it.

F) The pulley should be 3.5" in diameter as shown in the parts daigram.

G) Once a rod is bent the steel is weakened and will continue to bend, Replace.

Now that I have answered all your questions I have a couple of my own;

1) When you finished cleaning/lubing the VSP, Could you hold it in your hand as it mounts on the unit and flip it up side down quickly and have the center section drop to the bottom with a clink ?

2) With the engine running and looking down at the VSP do you see it move foward and back as you push the clutch pedal ?

3) With this bent rod loose from the VSP pivot plate and both belts off the VSP does this pivot plate move FREELY ?

4) Why did you choose that user name, Because it always seems to rain on your parade ?

Rain Man av · Nov 8, 2008

Restrorob said:
Here goes;

B) No, That amount of wear will not cause NO movement at all.
= ok, thanks

C) The pulley should go in the same hole shown in the parts diagram.
= ok, i'll put it back where it belongs.

D) This is normal, Don't worry about it.
= good to know.

F) The pulley should be 3.5" in diameter as shown in the parts daigram.
= well, it ain't, and the specs for the aftermarket is 4". I show an MTD part number 756-0542 - flat idler pulley... what spec do you find for this item ?

G) Once a rod is bent the steel is weakened and will continue to bend, Replace.
= ok...
Now that I have answered all your questions I have a couple of my own;

1) When you finished cleaning/lubing the VSP, Could you hold it in your hand as it mounts on the unit and flip it up side down quickly and have the center section drop to the bottom with a clink ?
= didn't perform this test, but i know it wasn't stuck. I could turn it freely and move it top to bottom freely. And it probably wouldn't "clink" as I had lubed it with wheel bearing grease.

2) With the engine running and looking down at the VSP do you see it move foward and back as you push the clutch pedal ?
== Yes, I do. it and the plate it is attached.

3) With this bent rod loose from the VSP pivot plate and both belts off the VSP does this pivot plate move FREELY ?
== I did not check for this. DO OVER !

4) Why did you choose that user name, Because it always seems to rain on your parade ?
== two reasons, I got the name Rain Man from some guys I used to work with, if it was going to rain, I would go around and tell people to roll up their car windows...plus, I had the knack of foretelling that it was going to rain - I can look at the cloud formations and tell if you if it is a good chance for rain. In come cases, I can predict whether or not it is going to rain in the location where I am. And by god, I wish it would rain on my parade, most of my trees are dying... please, I need rain, lots of it, so if you have any extra, can you please send as an email attachment, thanks. Did you know that Texas holds 6 of the 10 records for short duration rainfall in the United States ?

the second part av - stands for audio/visual, i have 16 years experience in the video/audio/visual industry and rain man av, is the name of my company.

I hope all this helps...
I have a funny feeling that perhaps one or both belts have stretched...
At this time, I am going to stop, drop and roll. - i'm going to go ahead and deinstall the VSP again and discon the bent rod and see how things add up.

Q) What do the female reindeer do while the male reindeer are out pulling santa's sleigh ?
A) They go into town and blow a few bucks.

Rain Man av · Nov 8, 2008

Restrorob said:
Here goes;

I removed belts, VSP and speed selector rod....

Now that I have answered all your questions I have a couple of my own;

1) When you finished cleaning/lubing the VSP, Could you hold it in your hand as it mounts on the unit and flip it up side down quickly and have the center section drop to the bottom with a clink ?

==Yes, it does.

3) With this bent rod loose from the VSP pivot plate and both belts off the VSP does this pivot plate move FREELY ? NO, there is this big freaking spring attached, and the only way I can move the pivot plate is with the clutch pedal.

UPDATE:

After removing VSP and performing tests above and replacing VSP, I started the mower and it would drive, 1st gear, both forward and reverse. If I moved to 2nd gear, flat idler came in contact with VSP, so I discontinued Mower pulled well in 1st gear as I had to drive the mower up my 8 foot long ramps. (2x6x8 lumber and cinder blocks).

I moved the flat idler back to it's original mounting point - the point indicated by the exploded view....started and drove - reverse/forward in 1st gear ok - no contact, in 2nd gear and higher, flat idler came into contact with pulley on transmission.

On an utter note, I found the following....made for good reading, but doesn't appear to solve my problem, as the following appears to apply to gears 6 and 7, like I go that fast, ever, NOT.

But just fer grins, I think I'm going to follow the steps they have indicated, and see what results I get....wish me luck.. thanks.

Restrorob · Nov 8, 2008

This is what my dealer's site states for that rear idler pulley;

75 756-0542
Add to pick list
Flat Idler 3.5" O.D.

At this point since the unit does move I would NOT make any adjustments just yet.

I would suggest replacing both drive belts, The bent rod and the rear idler pulley. See how it drives THEN make any adjustments necessary.

One other thing, You really should clean all grease off the VSP. It has a oil impregnated brass bushing in the center for lube, Sand will be attracted even worse and could cause binding of the center section.

Good Luck

Rain Man av · Nov 9, 2008

Can you review the image below. Pictured is what is seen when sitting in the driver's seat with the shift plate removed.

the black knob thingee is for the parking brake set/release.
the rod/linkage for the rear speed indicator selector is in the picture, but not attached in correct position.

The red plate pivots around it's pivot point just fine.
The green mark indicates a point where the blue plate comes into contact with a pin on the "RED" plate. I was able to force daylight at the location indicated by "green" with a screwdriver - I never saw any daylight during operation at the last test runs - where I moved the flat idler pulley to the outermost hole and the back to orig location.

The upper plate, outlined in blue never seperates from the "RED" pin at the point indicated by the green.

Is this correct ? or at some point in time during operation, should there be some daylight at the "green" location ?

On closer inspection a spring (missing) attaches on the BLUE plate at the point indicated by "divot" in the picture below - the other end of the spring attaches to a point on the RED plate to the right of the park brake set/release know. It struck me funny, why would there need to be a spring installed ? The purpose of the spring would be to hold tension so that the blue plate stays in contact with the pin on the RED plate at "green"

PS. I picked up a 2001 Poulan Pro that a mechanic misunderstood client's intentions when the client said they wanted flames. LOL:hammerhead:

Restrorob · Nov 9, 2008

Rain Man av said:
The upper plate, outlined in blue never seperates from the "RED" pin at the point indicated by the green.

Is this correct ? or at some point in time during operation, should there be some daylight at the "green" location ?

With the engine off/dead/not running and the clutch pedal pressed you should see ALL kinds of daylight at this green location, There should be none during operation with engine on/brought to life/running. The missing spring is to assure both the red plate and blue plate move together with the engine on/brought to life/running when the clutch pedal is pushed.

PS,

Customer couldn't figure out why their engine blew up. They had picked up a hand full of tree moss, Balled it up and stuffed it in place of the air filter.....

Rain Man av · Nov 10, 2008

I went out and tested again, engine off, the only time I see daylight, is when I am in 7th gear and I push the clutch ALL the way in, but the daylight is less than 1/8"....

I've never had a mower where the belts were this easy to get on and off. I expected to have to do a lot of cussing in order to get them off and back on.

I've ordered new belts and speed control rod. I've held off the flat idler, for now. I'm going to research the mower again, the model number has been painted over and I had to reverse engineer the mower to get the model number I gave at the beginning.

Do you ever sleep ? I see you posting stuff all the time, do you possess cloning technology ? I would prefer you spend time on your transporter technology. the drive to work is killing me.

Restrorob · Nov 10, 2008

If the speed control lever had been hooked up and in seventh gear, With the trans. shifter in neutral and the clutch let out with the engine running then shut off. There would be all kinds of light between this pin, The only purpose for this movement is so the clutch can be pushed for re-starting should the clutch be let out before engine shut-down.

Yes I sleep, I wished I could clone myself.....I haven't found a helper worth training in eighteen years, I'm gettin too ole to do it ALL myself. Message boards keep me too busy to work on my transporter.....Maybe this winter when mowing season ends.

Rain Man av · Nov 10, 2008

the speed control lever was hooked up - i reattached it, and there ain't no daylight in there. What would cause this ?

Does the missing spring have any bearing on the operation ?

Restrorob · Nov 10, 2008

Restrorob said:
If the speed control lever had been hooked up and in seventh gear, With the trans. shifter in neutral and the clutch let out with the engine running then shut off. There would be all kinds of light when the pedal is pushed with the engine NOT running.

Missed adding the above sooo check again....... That missing spring will have nothing to do with the amount of light seen at that pin when the clutch is pushed when the engine isn't running. It's there to make sure there's no light at the pin when the pedal is released (a back-up spring).

MTD Riding Lawn Mower won't drive

Rain Man av

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Jay Ray

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Rain Man av

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Rain Man av

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Rain Man av

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