A while back, someone recommended LebanonTurf's PROSCAPE WINNING COLORS grass seed. I thought I'd try it this Spring and found the Lebanon website, but they don't have a store-locator search engine, and when I called the 800 number, they refused to help me. Told me that it's only for landscapers and since I'm only a homeowner, they wouldn't oblige my request. Well, I guess I could have lied to them about who and what I am, but I thought it would just be easier for me to come here and ask. I live in Monmouth County, NJ. Can anyone provide a supplier's name and location, or perhaps a distibutor here in NJ who might send me to a nearby store where I can buy it?
Where can I buy LebanonTurf seed?
LarryF
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A while back, someone recommended LebanonTurf's PROSCAPE WINNING COLORS grass seed. I thought I'd try it this Spring and found the Lebanon website, but they don't have a store-locator search engine, and when I called the 800 number, they refused to help me. Told me that it's only for landscapers and since I'm only a homeowner, they wouldn't oblige my request. Well, I guess I could have lied to them about who and what I am, but I thought it would just be easier for me to come here and ask. I live in Monmouth County, NJ. Can anyone provide a supplier's name and location, or perhaps a distibutor here in NJ who might send me to a nearby store where I can buy it?
You can buy it at Shemin's nurseries, but I'm not sure if they will sell to homeowners? Here are some numbers and directions to one across the border to Pa.
PHILADELPHIA METRO LOCATIONS
5191 Concord Road • Aston, PA 19014-1410 • 610.358.0220 • Fax 610.358.2821
100 Green Tree Road • P O Box 649 • Oaks, PA 19456-0649 • 610.666.0595 • Fax 610.666.1550
1414 Wilmington Pike • West Chester (Chadds Ford), PA 19382-8315 • 610.455.0540 • Fax 610.455.0445
209 Bakers Basin Road • Lawrenceville, NJ 08648-3370 • 609.844.1075 • Fax 609.844.0239
I used it before, it's ok
PHILADELPHIA METRO LOCATIONS
5191 Concord Road • Aston, PA 19014-1410 • 610.358.0220 • Fax 610.358.2821
100 Green Tree Road • P O Box 649 • Oaks, PA 19456-0649 • 610.666.0595 • Fax 610.666.1550
1414 Wilmington Pike • West Chester (Chadds Ford), PA 19382-8315 • 610.455.0540 • Fax 610.455.0445
209 Bakers Basin Road • Lawrenceville, NJ 08648-3370 • 609.844.1075 • Fax 609.844.0239
I used it before, it's ok
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Thanks! Lawrenceville is about 60 miles from me. Hope I can find something closer. It would be a shame to drive that far only to find out they won't sell it to me. But I'll call first if I can't find anything else.
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Thanks for the tip, Dave. I'll need to fertilize too, of course. Was going to use a "starter" fert after the seeding. Do you recommend using the Mesa instead?
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Sounds reasonable, and I'll take your advice if I can get the Mesa. I found a place that is only about 5 or 6 miles from where I live that will sell me the seed; at least I think they will. I called to ask if they had it was told it's about $90 for a 50# bag of Winning Colors and about 5 bucks more for the one with some KBG added. Seemed like a good deal to me! I didn't ask about the Mesa, but I expect if they carry that product line, they'll have the fertilizer too. Thanks again.
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Your profile says NJ? Where in GA are you?
"Winning Colors" .....is yet another seed marketing ploy that has long outlived its usefulness in terms of respectability.
The first year or two Lebanon brought this brand to the wholesale seed market, they laid claim to a number of the top ranking seed varieties in a number of ongoing NTEP trails throughout the country.
The same cannot be said for the most recent Lebanon NTEP entries.
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Dave,
I found the site, but it almost looks like they speak a foreign language. Apparently, the term, MESA, is used with a lot of Lebanon's product brands, and they seem to have many of them besides ProScape. In different percentages too. Looks like from 30% to 100%. About the best I can get from browsing around their site is that MESA is Lebanon's controlled-release nitrogen product, and they say they have a patent on it. Do I want a high or a low percentage of MESA in whatever I buy?
I found the site, but it almost looks like they speak a foreign language. Apparently, the term, MESA, is used with a lot of Lebanon's product brands, and they seem to have many of them besides ProScape. In different percentages too. Looks like from 30% to 100%. About the best I can get from browsing around their site is that MESA is Lebanon's controlled-release nitrogen product, and they say they have a patent on it. Do I want a high or a low percentage of MESA in whatever I buy?
First of all, I agree with Marcos, I used Winning Colors here in Ga. twice and wouldn't use it again to be truthful. But than again Fescue really doesn't do all to well here with the heat, it would do alot better in Jersey, BTW, I grew up in Piscataway.
On the Mesa, I would ask the folks at Shemins for your area, the more the better if you ask me in the beginning to get the growth going, than I would just use what ever blend they recommend.
Ask Marcos what he recommends. Good luck.
Chris, Lawrenceville is in N.J. as well, 5 miles or so south of Princeton.
On the Mesa, I would ask the folks at Shemins for your area, the more the better if you ask me in the beginning to get the growth going, than I would just use what ever blend they recommend.
Ask Marcos what he recommends. Good luck.
Chris, Lawrenceville is in N.J. as well, 5 miles or so south of Princeton.
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Thanks, everyone, for all the responses. Marcos, as Dave K suggested, what would you use rather than the Winning Colors? I haven't bought anything yet, so I'm still open for suggestions. But I'd like to seed before the April showers hit us. I'll be re-seeding the bare spots of the already existing lawn, and I also have about a third of an acre that I recently cleared of leaves that have been on the ground for the last 24 years that I've lived here and I expect for many decades before that.
What do you think you have there now, exactly?
All turf type tall fescue?
T.T.T fescue / bluegrass mix?
T.T.T. fescue / KY 31 / bluegrass ( ....= junky looking because of 31's texture
)Something else?
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Tall Fescue, mostly Pennington Seed's Rebel, but occasionally I've also used Lesco's seed. I have a lot of large trees, and although the grass seems to be ok in the open area, the turf doesn't last through the summer in the shady areas under the trees. I have also tried perennial rye, but that didn't seem to work very well. It seemed to me that the TTF provided better results and lasted longer. Last summer I also got hit pretty hard with crab grass in about a thousand or two square feet, so in the last few days I have already hit those areas with some Snapshot, and I thought I'd wait a few weeks before using seed there. But meanwhile, I thought I could start on the bare spots under the trees and on the fresh-dirt section that I recently cleared of decades-old layer of fallen leaves. Well, anyway, I just thought that maybe I could try something other than the Pennington or the Lesco this year. Any advice would be appreciated. By the way, I've already, in years past, done the soil test and add lime procedure. I get grass every time I try, but it just doesn't last.What do you think you have there now, exactly?
All turf type tall fescue?
T.T.T fescue / bluegrass mix?
T.T.T. fescue / KY 31 / bluegrass ( ....= junky looking because of 31's texture
Something else?
You say you've been adding lime to raise pH in the past, but what kind of soil do you generally have....clayey, silty, sandy, rocky mix?
Do you aerate this lawn regularly?
The shaded areas under the trees...
What specie(s) of trees are you dealing with?
Do you have stuff like black locust, ash, or hickory that'll let enough light through to grow grass?
Or are you fighting the losing battle caused by the grass-smothering canopy of a red, sugar or Norway maple?
You are absolutely right about fescue in shade.
TTT fescue has been shown over & over again at the Ohio Turfgrass Foundation's shade test plot near Columbus OH, to be superior year after year in comparison to species like CR fescue, bluegrass.
Granted, the shade they have above those plots is produced by a natural line of black locust trees. Your shade situation could be MUCH MUCH deeper!
Recommendation: Keep adding DIFFERENT fescue varieties to add... "strength by number of species".
Not to discourage you too much, but you'll likely never see a healthy stand of grass growing right smack in the middle of a forest, at least not in this latitude.
You applied Snapshot to turf?
You sure you got that name right?Maybe you really meant something else?
If you want to have a little fun, take 1/2 hour or so and dig into this!
http://www.ntep.org/
I had to go back into it myself this afternoon for something, so I made notes of NJ-specific or shade-specific reference points along the way for you.
Here you go:
P. 31-33 shade in Ill.
P. 34-36 traffic stess in N. Brunswick NJ
P. 92-93 total establishment (look for "NJ2")
P. 112....summary
If they're still available in your area, I'd place my money on high-performing individual fescue varieties like Turbo, Spyder, Rhambler & Wolfpack.
You may have to call around to different vendors.
Some of them will sell a single variety in one bag or out of a trash can (a monoculture).
Others, Like Lesco / Deere, try to stick to the wise rule of " having strength in numbers", by selling only in mixes or blends of seed varieties.
FYI....a "blend" is two or more of the same species in the same bag. (Like two fescues or more, a "polyculture"
)A "mix" of seed is a multiple of species mixed together in one bag. Like two fescues, a bluegrass, and a perennial rye.
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Thanks again for all of the information, Marcos. Here are answers to your questions.
“what kind of soil do you generally have....clayey, silty, sandy, rocky mix?” The neighboring town is named Red Bank, and mine has the same soil, red clay.
“Do you aerate this lawn regularly?” No. But when I spread new seed every year in the bald spots, I rake it in. Do you believe it would make a big difference if I had aerated it too?
"What specie(s) of trees are you dealing with?" Very large oaks (lots of acorns in the fall), tulip, locust (donÂ’t know if itÂ’s black), ash and hickory. Attached is a Google-map photo of my lot, just to show you what IÂ’m up against. BTW, my next-door neighbor has an LCO maintaining his lot, and his turf is pretty much in the same shape as mine.
"You applied Snapshot to turf? You sure you got that name right?" ItÂ’s Dow AgroSciences Snapshot 25 TG. I have a part of a bag left over from a couple of years back that I want to use up. I realize that itÂ’s intended for the ground around ornamentals rather than turf, but to me itÂ’s a pre-emergence herbicide that should keep the crabgrass from retuning, so I used it in that small area.
Regarding the NTEP website, I got to it, but couldnÂ’t find the specific items you suggested I look at. Even used the provided search engine, but without luck. Can you give me the URLs for those pages.
I appreciate the tip about blends of seeds. ItÂ’s what I thought was the case, but IÂ’ve never actually gotten that information from a pro before. So thanks one more time.
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“what kind of soil do you generally have....clayey, silty, sandy, rocky mix?” The neighboring town is named Red Bank, and mine has the same soil, red clay.
“Do you aerate this lawn regularly?” No. But when I spread new seed every year in the bald spots, I rake it in. Do you believe it would make a big difference if I had aerated it too?
"What specie(s) of trees are you dealing with?" Very large oaks (lots of acorns in the fall), tulip, locust (donÂ’t know if itÂ’s black), ash and hickory. Attached is a Google-map photo of my lot, just to show you what IÂ’m up against. BTW, my next-door neighbor has an LCO maintaining his lot, and his turf is pretty much in the same shape as mine.
"You applied Snapshot to turf? You sure you got that name right?" ItÂ’s Dow AgroSciences Snapshot 25 TG. I have a part of a bag left over from a couple of years back that I want to use up. I realize that itÂ’s intended for the ground around ornamentals rather than turf, but to me itÂ’s a pre-emergence herbicide that should keep the crabgrass from retuning, so I used it in that small area.
Regarding the NTEP website, I got to it, but couldnÂ’t find the specific items you suggested I look at. Even used the provided search engine, but without luck. Can you give me the URLs for those pages.
I appreciate the tip about blends of seeds. ItÂ’s what I thought was the case, but IÂ’ve never actually gotten that information from a pro before. So thanks one more time.
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Marcos,
I didn't see a response from you to my last post, but that's ok. All of the previous info you provided to me has been helpful, but what I'd really like to know is what specific seed I should try this year if not the Winning Colors, which you seem to not think too highly of. I'd like to get some seed down as soon as possible in order to take advantage of this spring rain as much as possible. How about the LESCO tall fescue blends, 007330 or 056625? The latter is identified as "Certified", but I don't know what that's supposed to mean.
I didn't see a response from you to my last post, but that's ok. All of the previous info you provided to me has been helpful, but what I'd really like to know is what specific seed I should try this year if not the Winning Colors, which you seem to not think too highly of. I'd like to get some seed down as soon as possible in order to take advantage of this spring rain as much as possible. How about the LESCO tall fescue blends, 007330 or 056625? The latter is identified as "Certified", but I don't know what that's supposed to mean.
Larry,
If your Lesco-eaten-by-a-Deere still has Trigold Transition Blend, grab as much as you'll need for the spring, early summer!!
Much of that fescue is exactly what is sold to sod growers nationally, as it was originally Maryland certified blue tag seed.
What is now in stores like Lesco is the very tail-end of the 2007-2008 crop.
There can't be a whole heck of a lot left.
(Be prepared to pay somewhat accordingly, however!
)Yes, if you have clay soil like you've described, you certainly should CORE aerate your lawn once a year, when the soil is moist enough to allow the hollow tines to penetrate, early to mid fall ideally.
Just envision soil aeration as repotting the grass' roots all over your lawn 1,000,000 times over, allowing them a chance to grow deeper & stronger.
Also, consider top-dressing your lawn every few years with COURSE sand (NOT gypsum!). Sand will work its way into your clay over time, helping to aerate in a more natural way, if applied enough, doing in the long term much the same work of a mechanical aerator.
Shade issue:
You will probably need to take each individual shade area of your yard, piece-by-piece, into individual consideration.
Q's to ask yourself:
- Is this area really getting enough sunlight for grass to maintain itself? (not just to "sprout & grow" for awhile)
- (If not....) Are there some tree limbs that we can trim that'll allow some more light to the turf, that won't also hurt the aesthetics of our backyard?
-Are there trees or limbs endangering our house that can be removed?
Can't or won't cut tree limbs or trees?
Are there areas where you might consider putting in groundcover or perennial beds for shade-loving plants, like hosta, astilbe, pachysandra, vinca etc...?
If you applied Snapshot and it DIDN'T kill your turf, you're a good man! That means you were well within label limits!
Good luck! :waving:
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That Trigold Transition Blend worked out well for me, Marcos , so thanks again. I just came back from my local Lesco store, and the price wasn't even as high as what I had previously paid for the Home Depot/Lowes Pennington Rebel seed. While I was at Lesco, I also picked up it's starter fertilized for a fraction of what HD gets for it. I'll probably follow most of the other advice you provided as time goes by, but I don't think I'll be dropping any more trees or big branches. I've already gotten rid of all those that appeared to be a hazard to my house. And although I appreciate the suggestion of shade-loving plants like pachysandra, vinca, etc. for those areas under the trees where turf doesn't seem to want to stay, I have enough work already getting rid of leaves in the fall and I expect that ground cover would make that chore even a lot worse.
I'm not very concerned about whether I killed some turf with the Snapshot. In the area where I had spread it, everything was crabgrass and the less of it that reappears this summer, the better I'll like it.
, so thanks again. I just came back from my local Lesco store, and the price wasn't even as high as what I had previously paid for the Home Depot/Lowes Pennington Rebel seed. While I was at Lesco, I also picked up it's starter fertilized for a fraction of what HD gets for it. I'll probably follow most of the other advice you provided as time goes by, but I don't think I'll be dropping any more trees or big branches. I've already gotten rid of all those that appeared to be a hazard to my house. And although I appreciate the suggestion of shade-loving plants like pachysandra, vinca, etc. for those areas under the trees where turf doesn't seem to want to stay, I have enough work already getting rid of leaves in the fall and I expect that ground cover would make that chore even a lot worse.I'm not very concerned about whether I killed some turf with the Snapshot. In the area where I had spread it, everything was crabgrass and the less of it that reappears this summer, the better I'll like it.
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