Does anyone happen to know what the DOT regulations are in MI for pulling a tandem axle trailer with two mowers on it with a 96 Ford F-350 truck for the purpose of mowing lawns commercially?
DOT Regulations
Allers Lawn Care
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There are two factors here. ONE is crossing state lines, that is governed by Federal laws. The over 10K is one of those laws. State laws can vary, but cannot be more restrictive than Federal laws.
Search under DOT REG -- CFR 49
Generally sections 380 and 390.
Unless you are crossing STATE lines, the Federal DOT regs do not apply!
(I worked in Transportation for 25 years as a Compliance and Safety Officer.)
Search under DOT REG -- CFR 49
Generally sections 380 and 390.
Unless you are crossing STATE lines, the Federal DOT regs do not apply!
(I worked in Transportation for 25 years as a Compliance and Safety Officer.)
I not sure what you mean by the statement that state laws cannot be more restrictive than federal laws. Actually they can, as statutory laws take precedence over federal laws.
I concur fully with your second statement with the Federal DOT regs.. It just comes as a new enforcement of state law that we have our trucks properly registered and labeled (Co. name and DOT registration). This is actually not a new law here in Michigan,..it always existed...but was not enforced. It wasn't until recently, when the federal and state computer records are accessible with reciprocity that these laws are now monitored and enforceable.
I concur fully with your second statement with the Federal DOT regs.. It just comes as a new enforcement of state law that we have our trucks properly registered and labeled (Co. name and DOT registration). This is actually not a new law here in Michigan,..it always existed...but was not enforced. It wasn't until recently, when the federal and state computer records are accessible with reciprocity that these laws are now monitored and enforceable.
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Sorry about your Tickets, that sucks ! But.... Not straping down Lawn mower is very dangerous for everybody, No excuse there. Maybe thats why he didn't give you a warning on other violations.
BTW: Nice Rig.
BTW: Nice Rig.
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for example DOT requires a CDL driver to be 21 for interstate traffic. a state cannot require them to be older. it would infringe on interstate commerce. the same applies to what is required to define what is and is not "commerical"
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So why does CA require a CDL for a 10k trailer when the Feds don't?
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State lawns cannot diminish Fed law but they can add to it. For example, if the federal law states that you only need a USDOT number if you cross state lines (interstate) the state law can add to it and say that you also need a USDOT number to operate in that specific state (intrastate) regardless of whether you cross state lines or not. That is the case in many states but not all.
California has been adding to Federal emissions standards for decades.
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The Feds do in somecases
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I donot want to get in a pssing match, but i can drive my non-CA car in CA as long as it is registered and current in VA. However if I wanted to operate for revenue in CA t at would be different. To operate in a state you must comply with those regs. I think we are talking two different situations.
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Yeah, I see what you are saying - in that example (good example)...what I was meaning by statutory law taking precedence over federal law is like in the case above that Richard pointed out, for the US DOT numbers (as required here in Michigan,...even if you travel intrastate). Some other examples may be (but not limited to) speed limits. the national speed limit right now is 70 mph, although there are some states that are less throughout the whole state. Drinking age may be 18 nationally, but many states have 21 as legal drinking age. (this one is non-commerce).
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The best answer is to call your State Transportation office and the office of any state you work in. And if you cross state lines, ie work in two or more states contact the DOT (Federal)
I can't speak for all states, but (in my prior job) I found both were willing to help. They seemed to have the attitude of having you in compliance was better than fining you for not being in compliance.
I can't speak for all states, but (in my prior job) I found both were willing to help. They seemed to have the attitude of having you in compliance was better than fining you for not being in compliance.
For only so many days, (30-60-90 ?) than you must make it comply with Calif. law no matter what.
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If you drive your VA registered car in Fl, you'd better not be working here for more than 30 days, except military. After 30 day your registration is null and void in the state and you must get Fl tags. Or quit. Also, the Federal Laws are minimums. The state can be stricter on Comm equipment both Interstate and Intrastate. Example was the width of vehicles. Fed law changed to 8'6" while some states restricted you if your vehicle was over 8' on state highways.
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Nah, you're just trying to split hairs here. You can't apply the same exact circumstances to every law. Somehow your commercial vehicle got to Ca and if you're operating it for the purposes of making money then you must have a USDOT number the second it crosses state lines.
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"For only so many days, (30-60-90 ?) than you must make it comply with Calif. law no matter what."
If I am non-resident, I don't have to comply. What you are thinking of is that after a period of time (and generally other requirements, circumstance and situations) I am a resident and then must comply.
"If you drive your VA registered car in Fl, you'd better not be working here for more than 30 days, except military. After 30 day your registration is null and void in the state and you must get Fl tags. Or quit. Also, the Federal Laws are minimums. The state can be stricter on Comm equipment both Interstate and Intrastate. Example was the width of vehicles. Fed law changed to 8'6" while some states restricted you if your vehicle was over 8' on state highways."
I see you haven't spent a lot of time reading federal regulations. The first part of you statement I've already addressed, if a person is WORKING in Fla, they are required to comply with those regulations. But if I decide to spend 60 days at Disney, I don't have to get FLA tags. As to vehicle width (and length) Federal law in both cases allow states to regulate those degrees (as well as weight and height restrictions) It would be funny to see a 13'6" truck attempt to make it under a 12'6" bridge.
"Somehow your commercial vehicle got to Ca and if you're operating it for the purposes of making money then you must have a USDOT number the second it crosses state lines."
Maybe, maybe not. If CA requires it and I'm operating in CA, then YES. If I meet the requirement of the FEDS for a vehicle crossing state line, then even if CA didn't require it as a state the answer would be YES.
For an example.... if the FEDS required ANY vehicle that pulls ANY trailer across state lines for commerce to have a DOT number then that number would be required, even if the states themselves did not require it within the state. However if the states did not require a number for just a Pickup with a 22" mower in the bed then if I drove the pickup and mower, I would be in compliance.
You are confusing what a STATE requires to operate with that STATE and what the FEDERAL requires to cross state lines. We have also clouded the issue by discussing private vehicles and commercial endeavors.
A business must comply with the rules of the STATE in which they do business, not just the STATE in which they reside. If they cross state lines for commerce, they must also apply FEDERAL laws.
If I am non-resident, I don't have to comply. What you are thinking of is that after a period of time (and generally other requirements, circumstance and situations) I am a resident and then must comply.
"If you drive your VA registered car in Fl, you'd better not be working here for more than 30 days, except military. After 30 day your registration is null and void in the state and you must get Fl tags. Or quit. Also, the Federal Laws are minimums. The state can be stricter on Comm equipment both Interstate and Intrastate. Example was the width of vehicles. Fed law changed to 8'6" while some states restricted you if your vehicle was over 8' on state highways."
I see you haven't spent a lot of time reading federal regulations. The first part of you statement I've already addressed, if a person is WORKING in Fla, they are required to comply with those regulations. But if I decide to spend 60 days at Disney, I don't have to get FLA tags. As to vehicle width (and length) Federal law in both cases allow states to regulate those degrees (as well as weight and height restrictions) It would be funny to see a 13'6" truck attempt to make it under a 12'6" bridge.
"Somehow your commercial vehicle got to Ca and if you're operating it for the purposes of making money then you must have a USDOT number the second it crosses state lines."
Maybe, maybe not. If CA requires it and I'm operating in CA, then YES. If I meet the requirement of the FEDS for a vehicle crossing state line, then even if CA didn't require it as a state the answer would be YES.
For an example.... if the FEDS required ANY vehicle that pulls ANY trailer across state lines for commerce to have a DOT number then that number would be required, even if the states themselves did not require it within the state. However if the states did not require a number for just a Pickup with a 22" mower in the bed then if I drove the pickup and mower, I would be in compliance.
You are confusing what a STATE requires to operate with that STATE and what the FEDERAL requires to cross state lines. We have also clouded the issue by discussing private vehicles and commercial endeavors.
A business must comply with the rules of the STATE in which they do business, not just the STATE in which they reside. If they cross state lines for commerce, they must also apply FEDERAL laws.
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Some states don't even require you to be working in the state to be a resident after so many days.
As far as reading Fed Regs, been doing it for a long time on more than just trucking versions of transportation. Hours of service is not a new thing, except in trucking.
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ill voice my opinion here. DOT is a huge load of BS. I feel very strongly about it. Its a bunch of loser ass cops with nothing better to do but to pick on the little guy. I see lawn companies pulled over every single day and lots of heavy trucks cruising right on by. The way I see it is DOT regulations were created for the purpose of regulating rigs on the road like semis and dump trucks. Simply having a superduty truck with an 18 foot trailer and 3 mowers on it i dont think qualifies into the heavy truck category. I see people pulling some bad looking trailers with janky trucks all the time that are not in the lawn care industry and cruise right on past DOT cops. In my opinion we would all be better off if the weight rating was 21001 or over. Ive gotten all my stuff in line and follow the bs rules of DOT but it has cost me a lot of money. And they do hit you with fines on everything. I had a similar situation the first time i got pulled over and didnt even know what dot was. I got 8 tickets and it cost about 3000 bucks to get everything up to their "standards". You must be ignorant if you cant see that DOT is a scam when lawn companies get pulled over. Ive also seen them change the rules overnight then give you a ticket for whatever it is they have changed the next day. If it were up to me i would like to see all the lawn companies in america come together and fight the DOT and get them off our asses. whew..... i feel better now.
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So.....do you think all the LCO's should just be able to run wild and not have to keep there stuff up like any other guy with a commercial vehicle on the road?
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