Thatch and lumpy yard issues

Landscaping-newb · Sep 5, 2010

This has been my first summer (which was a horribly dry and hot summer) in my house and I've noticed some issues showing up throughout the summer. First, the lawn has gotten so lumpy and bumpy that you could seriously roll your ankle if you aren't careful. Second, I noticed while looking through one of the lumps that I have a bad thatch problem.

So, I am hoping to get some experienced guidance to solving these issues. I have read that aerating the lawn will help with both issues. I don't believe just rolling the yard will be effective, unless I brought in a pavement roller which obviously isn't going to happen. Should I also use a dethatcher before I aerate? When is the best time to aerate? With the ground being so dry and hard right now it seems that I would be very difficult to get good plugs pulled out.

Another random question I have is does the grass that is burned up from heat in the summer come back, or do I need to re-seed those areas? I plan to overseed this fall before winter, but do need to know if I need to completely re-seed burned up areas as well.

If anyone has any suggestions for all of these issues I would greatly appreciate it. This is my first home, which has been a crazy learning exprience with regards to landscaping to say the least! Thanks for any and all help.

dgw · Sep 5, 2010

wait till mid october , double aerate overseed/starter fert

you are near me so i can suggest lesco/jd champion mix

your grade issues will not be solved by this

you would have to regrade

dgw · Sep 5, 2010

i have found dethatching can usually be avoided when these steps are taken

Kiril · Sep 5, 2010

Landscaping-newb said:
This has been my first summer (which was a horribly dry and hot summer) in my house and I've noticed some issues showing up throughout the summer. First, the lawn has gotten so lumpy and bumpy that you could seriously roll your ankle if you aren't careful. Second, I noticed while looking through one of the lumps that I have a bad thatch problem.

How bad is bad? IMO if your thatch layer is more than 1" then you should dethatch with a verti-mower .... aerating won't cut it. I also wouldn't aerate too late in the season. You need to allow for some recovery time. Also, if you aerate then do a compost top dress as well.

RigglePLC · Sep 5, 2010

My opinion, why would you wait? Start now, when soil is warm, as you want to seed about 6 weeks before frost, which is likely mid-October in your area.
http://www.farmersalmanac.com/weather/2007/02/14/average-frost-dates/
Secondly, is the clumpy, bumpy condition caused by clumps of grass between areas of almost bare soil? If so--the main thing you need is more grass. Whether it will recover on its own depends on how bad it was fried out and what kind of grass you have. Tall fescue is heat resistant, but it does not creep to fill-in thin spots. Bluegrass creeps better, but is not as resistant to heat.
Use a seed containing both types for best results, maybe including one of the new creeping-type tall fescue varieties like Spyder LS.
http://mtviewseeds.com/DATASHEETS/Spyder.pdf

In any case you are not alone. And it may happen again if it is allowed to dry out completely in the future. Only a small amount of water is needed to prevent death of the grass--no need to keep it lush and green.

dgw · Sep 5, 2010

RigglePLC said:
My opinion, why would you wait? Start now, when soil is warm, as you want to seed about 6 weeks before frost, which is likely mid-October in your area.
http://www.farmersalmanac.com/weather/2007/02/14/average-frost-dates/
Secondly, is the clumpy, bumpy condition caused by clumps of grass between areas of almost bare soil? If so--the main thing you need is more grass. Whether it will recover on its own depends on how bad it was fried out and what kind of grass you have. Tall fescue is heat resistant, but it does not creep to fill-in thin spots. Bluegrass creeps better, but is not as resistant to heat.
Use a seed containing both types for best results, maybe including one of the new creeping-type tall fescue varieties like Spyder LS.
http://mtviewseeds.com/DATASHEETS/Spyder.pdf

In any case you are not alone. And it may happen again if it is allowed to dry out completely in the future. Only a small amount of water is needed to prevent death of the grass--no need to keep it lush and green.

imo it still to hot and dry in ne ohio for aerating/ seeding of a non irrigated lawn

the champ mix is kgb, chewing fescue, and rye

Landscaping-newb · Sep 5, 2010

Thanks for the feedback. I was planning on waiting until the end of this month to aerate hoping it will be much cooler and wetter. With regards to aerating and double aerating, should I swap the pattern I take on the second time around basically criss crossing my first pattern? After aerating I plan on dropping the same seed I bought when I seeding a large area of my lawn that grew in really green and thick (if you few my previous post from earlier this year you'll see what I had to do). It's a heavy mix of a few blue grasses, fescue, etc. It's a custom mix from a popular nursery here in Canton, OH.

So, after the seeding I should use a starter fert? Is this the only fert I should use this fall going into winter? The last fert I used was right before summer which was a weed and feed which ended up burning some spots in my yard where I doubled up on accident (making turns).

How heavy do you go with a top dressing? Do you spread this with a fert spreader or just spread/throw it around by hand? Does this have to be compost or can I use a top soil sand mix?

The bumpy ground issue is a mystery to me. I don't believe it was like this until mid summer when it got so brutally hot and dry. I read where your yard can compact if it's too hot and dry. I am guessing this is my case. I was hoping by taking some eart out (aerating) that the ground could almost redisperse itself and level out a bit. Maybe thats just wishful thinking but it seemed to make sense.

attached are some pictures of two of the more dried out areas in my lawn. One of the pictures is part of the new area I reseeded this spring. I am hoping this grass isn't too young to recover as I spent a ton of time and money getting the yard prepared and seeded and growing.

Sorry for the book here! Like my name says, I am a definite newb

dgw · Sep 5, 2010

yes change directions

and the starter fert will do till spring

RigglePLC · Sep 6, 2010

Was the dirt smooth to start with last year? Then the bumpy condition is caused by clumps of grass that survived, surrounded by flat areas of dead grass that did not make it during the hot spell. Take a careful look at the ingredients any seed you buy. A common problem is perennial rye mixed with fescue. At first the rye crowds out the fescue, but then later, the rye dies out in hot weather--and only clumps of fescue remain. Bluegrass can be killed also, but it recovers better, because it has the ability to creep. Rye cannot creep, neither can fescue (unless it is one of the new lateral-spread types).

Make sure you understand what caused this--did you have football practice on this grass? If not, the hardness of the soil is caused by dryness. Technically that is not compaction--its dry soil. Some clay soils get hard as stone. You cannot aerate; it is too hard. After a few soaking rains, clay has the ability to absorb moisture and it becomes soft as jello, ( which is fine for new seed). I suggest you dethatch and seed and apply starter fertilizer, plus additional fert in 30 days and additional in 60 days (if not snowing), LOL. You want to build as much thickness as you can--if it is thick enough--skip the extra fert.

Make sure there is no ryegrass in your new seed, zero. The goal here is to get the fescue seed in contact with the soil. I do not personally think topdressing helps that much--it just takes too much--and its too hard to spread. For 10,000 square feet at 1/4 inch deep you would need about 10,000 pounds of topsoil. Call a pro for best results.

Landscaping-newb · Sep 7, 2010

First off - anyone have any thoughts regarding the lawn pics posted previously? It looks like a lot of others in the neighborhood so I am not too worried about it coming back this fall/next spring.

Regarding the recent reply, as I stated, this is my first summer in this home but as far as I can remember the lumps and bumps in the lawn began showing up this summer when it got super hot. I don't believe they are caused by clumps of grass as I have dug down into one of the bumps with my fingers and it all seems to be really dry soil, which is surprisingly easy to loosen up considering how hard they are when you walk over them. You can't see the bumps until you actually walk over them. My lawn is actually really thick, but due to the drought like weather this year I haven't been able to keep up with watering regularly which I feel is contributing to the problem.

The seed that I use I believe is mostly a blend of KY Blue and fescue. I am not sure about the ryegrass, but I don't recall it having any in it. If it did it was minimal. If anyone is familiar with NE OH they may know of Rohr and Sons nursery. They have a custom batch of seed which is mostly a Fairlawn mix with some additional KY blue.

My plan for this fall, which will hopefully minimize some of my issues, is as follows. I will probably begin this process near the end of Sept going into October. Please chime in with any suggestions. Going to be as descriptive as possible here...

1. Lower the blade on my push mower and scalp the yard (if there are any specifics heights I should use please advise).
2. Depending on ground softness, water appropriately to soften up the soil.
3. Double aerate
4. Overseed and starter fert (is it good to lightly rake after this to help get the seed and fert to the soil??)
5. Light top dressing (probably compost mixture, any other suggestions?)
6. Double pass with lawn roller (push/pull rental one you fill with water), or is this a bad idea? Not sure if this will affect the pulled plugs and their ability to redistrubute themselves back into the soil.
7. Hope like hell this works and pray for a nice lawn in 2011 spring

Thoughts or suggestions are always appreciated. Thanks!!!

Thatch and lumpy yard issues

Landscaping-newb

dgw

dgw

Kiril

RigglePLC

dgw

Landscaping-newb

dgw

RigglePLC

Landscaping-newb

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