I get into this debate every once and a while with fellow applicators. Some say there is no difference, I say there is but I've been known to be wrong. A surfactant is like a soap, matter of fact I've heard recommendations for non-ionic dish washing liquids like Joy being used. When added to the tank mix it breaks down the surface tension of the spray liquid when applied to foliage so it coats the foliage completely, not just bead up. A spreader/sticker is a surfactant with another ingredient such as an oil that helps the spray stay on the foliage after it is coated.
Difference between a surfactant and a spreader/sticker
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I get into this debate every once and a while with fellow applicators. Some say there is no difference, I say there is but I've been known to be wrong. A surfactant is like a soap, matter of fact I've heard recommendations for non-ionic dish washing liquids like Joy being used. When added to the tank mix it breaks down the surface tension of the spray liquid when applied to foliage so it coats the foliage completely, not just bead up. A spreader/sticker is a surfactant with another ingredient such as an oil that helps the spray stay on the foliage after it is coated.
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The difference between a surfactant and a spreader sticker is how it affects the active ingredient. A surfactant makes the active ingredient spread more evenly across the leaf. A spreader sticker is usually a resin based material that will mix with the active ingredient and bind it to the surface of the leaf. In binding it to the leaf surface, it also interferes with the action of products that are supposed to be systemic. The only time I ever use spreader sticker type products are with contact fungicides, insecticides and miticides as are used on ornamentals/nursery crops. Never for turf herbicides.
MSO has the property of solublizing many active ingredients, then carrying them through the leaf. This is especially good for the sulfonylurea herbicides, which are not very soluble in water and not soluble in solvents. Examples of sulfonylurea herbicides are Certainty, Celsius, Corsair, Mansion, Revolver, and Sedgehammer.
MSO has the property of solublizing many active ingredients, then carrying them through the leaf. This is especially good for the sulfonylurea herbicides, which are not very soluble in water and not soluble in solvents. Examples of sulfonylurea herbicides are Certainty, Celsius, Corsair, Mansion, Revolver, and Sedgehammer.
I think that some of the confusion is that a surfactant is a technical term that has a clear chemical definition, whereas a sticker/spreader is not.
Moreover, a chemical marketed as a sticker/spreader may (and probably does) include surfactants.
Dawn dishwashing detergent (and detergents in general) are surfactants. They act by reducing the surface tension of the solution, which reduces the contact angle of drops on a surface. This is particularly useful on hydrophobic surfaces.
One example of a sticker would be xanthan gum. This is something that most commercial salsa manufacturers use. Without it, salsa would just run off your chip.
Moreover, a chemical marketed as a sticker/spreader may (and probably does) include surfactants.
Dawn dishwashing detergent (and detergents in general) are surfactants. They act by reducing the surface tension of the solution, which reduces the contact angle of drops on a surface. This is particularly useful on hydrophobic surfaces.
One example of a sticker would be xanthan gum. This is something that most commercial salsa manufacturers use. Without it, salsa would just run off your chip.
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I think Greendoctor has it right (again). A sticker is designed to stick a fungicide to the leaf surface in a thin, but complete, covering. Insecticides, likewise. Useful mainly for contact fungicides.
My opinion: do not try to use a surfactant nor a spreader-sticker to improve your chances in case of rain. Let the salesman prove that this works--he can't. At least, I don't think so.
Be skeptical of claims that surfactants improve weed control. By what percentage? On what weed? At what university was the research conducted?
My opinion: do not try to use a surfactant nor a spreader-sticker to improve your chances in case of rain. Let the salesman prove that this works--he can't. At least, I don't think so.
Be skeptical of claims that surfactants improve weed control. By what percentage? On what weed? At what university was the research conducted?
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So, would you classify MSO as a trans-locator or plant penatrant?
http://psep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-slides-self/facts/gen-peapp-adjuvants.aspx
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Riggle, I rely heavily on LI-700 and copycat adjuvants. More than anything because of its drift-reduction (which is verifiable). My properties are smaller and heavily landscaped, and I nuked a flower or two year one with my Z-spray due to drift.
I also believe the acidic nature of it in our alkaline soils causes the plants to suck it in faster... but I have no real proof...
Maybe this year I'll try to find some weeds to spray with and without, and ten wash it off after 10 or 15 minutes and see what comes of it...
I also believe the acidic nature of it in our alkaline soils causes the plants to suck it in faster... but I have no real proof...
Maybe this year I'll try to find some weeds to spray with and without, and ten wash it off after 10 or 15 minutes and see what comes of it...
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I consider MSO a translocator. It makes specific herbicides do things above and beyond what a non ionic surfactant/wetter-spreader would do.
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I will agree there are 100s of varieties that make it confusing.
If you stick with an 80/20 surfactant, mso, and maybe a crop oil you will be fine.
It gets really confusing when these guys start selling you an "activator" or a surfactant plus something else.
If you stick with an 80/20 surfactant, mso, and maybe a crop oil you will be fine.
It gets really confusing when these guys start selling you an "activator" or a surfactant plus something else.
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Couldn't have said it any better myself. MSO is particular to those hard to kill grasses like Crabgrass, Bermudagrass, Dallisgrass.
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Another penetrant is Fulvic Acid. It's very small molecules will bring pesticides into the leaf.
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Ask the salesman for proof--data--that the product improves herbicide effects. And by what percent the results are improved.
Try to compare your own results with and without surfactant, on the same weed species. For instance: clover, violets, oxalis, or spurge.
I have done a few tests in the past. I did not see much effect--except for greater effectiveness on oxalis--a weed with a waxy leaf surface.
Keep in mind if the penetration is better on the weeds--it might very well penetrate grass just as well.
Drive XLR8 for instance on the label calls for MSO in the spray mix.
But Quincept with the same active ingredient, (quinclorac) does not.
The cost of adding a surfactant is high if you add it to the tank and spray with large volumes of water. Or water plus fertilizer.
However, in a back pack sprayer at low volume and only spot spraying--the cost is low. You may need only an ounce per gallon.
About 85 cents per ounce.
Try to compare your own results with and without surfactant, on the same weed species. For instance: clover, violets, oxalis, or spurge.
I have done a few tests in the past. I did not see much effect--except for greater effectiveness on oxalis--a weed with a waxy leaf surface.
Keep in mind if the penetration is better on the weeds--it might very well penetrate grass just as well.
Drive XLR8 for instance on the label calls for MSO in the spray mix.
But Quincept with the same active ingredient, (quinclorac) does not.
The cost of adding a surfactant is high if you add it to the tank and spray with large volumes of water. Or water plus fertilizer.
However, in a back pack sprayer at low volume and only spot spraying--the cost is low. You may need only an ounce per gallon.
About 85 cents per ounce.
I feel this needs to be emphasized. For a selective product, messing with the mix you spray may alter the selectivity in ways you do not want (i.e. it is a double edged sword). For example, Sulfentrazone specifically has a warning not to add any surfactants.
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Good point Litman,
Here is a paragraph from the label at the bottom of the fine print. See the last 3 lines.
TANK MIXES AND ADJUVANTS Tank mixing with other pesticides registered for use on turfgrass can extend the weed control range and enhance efficacy of Sulfentrazone 4SC Select for both pre-emergence and post-emergence control. Read and follow the label of each tank mix product used for precautionary statements, directions for use, rates and timings, and other restrictions. It is the pesticide user’s responsibility to ensure that all products in the listed mixtures are registered for the intended use. Users must follow the most restrictive directions for use and precautionary statements of each product in the tank mixture. Use of adjuvants or surfactants with Sulfentrazone 4SC Select can cause short-term discoloration of some turf species. Prime Source, LLC does not advise use of Sulfentrazone 4SC Select with surfactants or adjuvants.
Here is a paragraph from the label at the bottom of the fine print. See the last 3 lines.
TANK MIXES AND ADJUVANTS Tank mixing with other pesticides registered for use on turfgrass can extend the weed control range and enhance efficacy of Sulfentrazone 4SC Select for both pre-emergence and post-emergence control. Read and follow the label of each tank mix product used for precautionary statements, directions for use, rates and timings, and other restrictions. It is the pesticide user’s responsibility to ensure that all products in the listed mixtures are registered for the intended use. Users must follow the most restrictive directions for use and precautionary statements of each product in the tank mixture. Use of adjuvants or surfactants with Sulfentrazone 4SC Select can cause short-term discoloration of some turf species. Prime Source, LLC does not advise use of Sulfentrazone 4SC Select with surfactants or adjuvants.
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Pardon me for being a bit negative.
Another problem to worry about is this.
If spreader-stickers spread out the herbicide solution on the leaf surface--then--does it evaporate sooner? Particularly under hot, dry conditions?
Once the herbicide evaporates and crystalizes, it can no longer penetrate the leaf. Or so I have read on this site.
Using surfactants, by what percent is drift reduced? Is there data?
Another problem to worry about is this.
If spreader-stickers spread out the herbicide solution on the leaf surface--then--does it evaporate sooner? Particularly under hot, dry conditions?
Once the herbicide evaporates and crystalizes, it can no longer penetrate the leaf. Or so I have read on this site.
Using surfactants, by what percent is drift reduced? Is there data?
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Good questions Riggle.
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