I got to rant a little bit. I stopped by my local Stihl dealer yesterday for some parts, i looked on the back wall where all the trimmers are and i wanted to cry. Almost everyone of them had the 4-mix motors, the only ones that didn't were the 45,55,70,and 250. Don't get me wrong i like my FS-90's, they are powerful machines but they aren't like the old 2 stroke Stihls. One thing that i don't like is the 4-Mix motors have no low end torque. You pretty much have to hold it wide open to cut, and when i trim i like to use half throttle which you cannot do with the 4-mix trimmers. Taking them in for valve adjustments all the time is a headache too. Stihl use to have the best trimmers in the business like the FS-80,FS-85,FS-120, and FS-200. The FS-120 was one of the best trimmers made, it was around the same price as a FS-90 and it was 30cc's of raw 2-Stroke power. Now, you have to spend $530 to get a good 2-Cycle trimmer which is the FS-250. Me and the salesman had a good discussion about this and i wanted to hear from some of you. Why cant Stihl make 2-Cycle equipment. If Echo,Redmax,Shindaiwa,Husqvarna,Tanaka,Maryuama, and others can still make 2-Cycle trimmers, why cant Stihl. Why cant one of the largest makers of Outdoor power equipment with technology out the wazoo and the best engineers produce 2-Stroke equipment that meets EPA standards?
Why cant Stihl make 2-Cycle equipment?
banjoman
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I got to rant a little bit. I stopped by my local Stihl dealer yesterday for some parts, i looked on the back wall where all the trimmers are and i wanted to cry. Almost everyone of them had the 4-mix motors, the only ones that didn't were the 45,55,70,and 250. Don't get me wrong i like my FS-90's, they are powerful machines but they aren't like the old 2 stroke Stihls. One thing that i don't like is the 4-Mix motors have no low end torque. You pretty much have to hold it wide open to cut, and when i trim i like to use half throttle which you cannot do with the 4-mix trimmers. Taking them in for valve adjustments all the time is a headache too. Stihl use to have the best trimmers in the business like the FS-80,FS-85,FS-120, and FS-200. The FS-120 was one of the best trimmers made, it was around the same price as a FS-90 and it was 30cc's of raw 2-Stroke power. Now, you have to spend $530 to get a good 2-Cycle trimmer which is the FS-250. Me and the salesman had a good discussion about this and i wanted to hear from some of you. Why cant Stihl make 2-Cycle equipment. If Echo,Redmax,Shindaiwa,Husqvarna,Tanaka,Maryuama, and others can still make 2-Cycle trimmers, why cant Stihl. Why cant one of the largest makers of Outdoor power equipment with technology out the wazoo and the best engineers produce 2-Stroke equipment that meets EPA standards?
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4,643 Posts
none of the other makers except husky run like they used too. blame the epa. for some reason the huskys still run strong and smooth despite the epa regs. i am nursing all my old models foe as long as possible as i am done with the 4 mix. the shin c4 is no better. hasnt sthil come out with some new 2 stroke models?
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3,368 Posts
Becuse they created a 4 cycle to meet EPA requirments. No point looking back.
Echo bought out shindawia since they decided to not try and reinvent the 2 cycle
engine.. As much a business decision as it was to absorb that portion of the market share.
easy-lift guy
Echo bought out shindawia since they decided to not try and reinvent the 2 cycle
engine.. As much a business decision as it was to absorb that portion of the market share.
easy-lift guy
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14,898 Posts
One of my local Stihl dealers has a little hidden secret that one of the owners told me about. This particular dealer sells a lot of Stihl equipment, including to the city. The city buys everything but Stihl trimmers. They also complain about the weight. Unbeknownst to virtually everybody that walks through the door, this dealer also has a stock of Kawasaki KTF-27A trimmers. The city buys these instead of the Stihl trimmers. I have a Kawasaki KTF-27B1 trimmer and it is truly a great trimmer.
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3,807 Posts
I dont like the whole "greeny" thing surrounding the 4 strokes and 2 strokes being simpler are naturally better. I stayed away from stihl for a long time because of that. Most of my stuff is 4 mix now. They just run better and longer for me despite my logic and prefference. And the thing I like most about them is the exact opposite of what you said. The low end torque is so much better.
a 4 stroke SHOULD have more low end torque. 2 strokes generally have a narrow powerband and most of the power is in the upper end of the range. i prefer the 2 stroke stuff in small equipment, its lighter, simpler, and just all around easier. let those 4 stroke valves go too long and see how fun it is to start! theres alot less to go wrong on a 2 stroke and i believe that they last just as long as any 4 stroke would under the same conditions
I agree with kawakx125. I used an FS85 trimmer for a long time, and still use an FC85 edger. I bought an FS90R about 4-5 years ago when the FS85 went south.
The FS90R has much better low end torque than the FS or FC. I always run the FC WOT, but rarely run the FS90 WOT. I force myself to run it WOT more to get it hotter.
As for valves, there is "no taking it it all the time." I bought the kit, adjusted them one time about about 100 hours. It took all of 30 minutes. I've posted a link with pictures several times. The valve issue is a non-issue, but does make a great talking point for Stihl objectors.
The FS90R has much better low end torque than the FS or FC. I always run the FC WOT, but rarely run the FS90 WOT. I force myself to run it WOT more to get it hotter.
As for valves, there is "no taking it it all the time." I bought the kit, adjusted them one time about about 100 hours. It took all of 30 minutes. I've posted a link with pictures several times. The valve issue is a non-issue, but does make a great talking point for Stihl objectors.
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63 Posts
I simply will not buy a 4 stroke... I have enough valve problems with my dirt bike
At least you have a good reason, ..... errrrrr, well, maybe not...?
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178 Posts
What Low End Torque? The 4-Mix has none, its all High End Torque. You cant half throttle the 4-Mix trimmers, its full throttle or no cutting. Watch this video, this guy does a great review and describes what im talking about to a T. He starts talking about it around the 1:20 mark.
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28,093 Posts
Yes they have. Their two or three newest BP's are 2 strokes (200, 350, and 430). They are actually Redmax strato-charged engines in them that Stihl bought just before deciding to go ahead (and come out with) with their huge investment in R&D with the 4 mix. I found all of this info by doing some searching on the net one night last winter when there was nothing else to do. Stihl purchased 100K small 2 stroke strato-charged engines from Redmax to use, but since they had so much invested already in the 4 mix development, they shelved those engines and went full bore at the 4 mix believeing that the epa would eventually force all small engine manu's to follow suit. Then, much to Stihl's chagrin, the Redmax strato engines not only met, but far exceeded the epa's reg's at that time, and would do so for quite some time to come.
As fas as torque with the 4 mix's goes, I'm with those who say it has a LOT at low end. I hate the fact that their trimmers are either on or off, with no easy, smooth middle ground. Kinda bugs me because their BR600's trigger up and down smooth as silk from off throttle to full throttle.
Forget it. The EPA has ruined it for us. I bought as much stuff as I could before this all happened but it isn't going to last forever. The Shindaiwa T242 sucks... Bogging out, so I put a brand new 230 muffler on it, solved problem. Tanaka same thing, except I don't have any old style mufflers that fit. Redmax GZ30N motor... Cold blooded as heck, can't stand it. It doesn't seem to effect the blowers as much, but I definitely can tell that the trimmers have went down hill.
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28,093 Posts
Try one of the Husky trimmers. I love my little 223L, and I'm gonna add the 323L next year. The 223 starts on the third pull every time cold, first warm. It doesn't bog or hesitate, and has more than enough power for all but the worst trimming conditions like ditches etc. I know Husky owns RM and their blowers are the same, but the trimmers are still different. Can't say enough good about this little 223. The more I use it the more I like it, and I've used it all season.
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28,093 Posts
I agree. Eventually if they get their way, we'll all be back using the old hand scizzor type shears.
That was one big reason I bought my Husky 570 BTS last fall. I wanted one that was strato charged, but didn't have a stupid and useless CC.
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14,898 Posts
There's a little more to this story and it is a critical part of this story.
The EPA was considering and had drawn up draft regulations for much tougher exhaust emissions for hand held 2 stroke equipment. This was being considered for a significant number of years. These new regs were going to force literally all 2 strokes out of the business. That is why Shindaiwa, Stihl and a few others spent significant amounts of money developing their 4 stroke engines.
Then in 2008 the EPA suddenly changed their minds. The story says that the engine manufacturers said that they couldn't make their current engines any cleaner than they already were and the EPA relented and decided to keep the Tier II (the old standard) emissions levels in place.
In their explanation page of the new standards the EPA says:
"We are not adopting new exhaust emission standards for handheld emissions."
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/marinesi-equipld/420f08013.htm
Stihl and Shindaiwa got screwed, plain and simple.
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16,389 Posts
The lack of throttle precision on a trimmer has more to do with the linkage setup then what type of engine it is. The throttles are short throw and designed to be used at full throttle most of the time.
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