Brand New Bobcat Hydro problem

Turfman999 · Apr 28, 2014

My new Bobcat CRZ 48" with Hydrogear zt2800 hydros. Before I take it back to the dealer for the 3rd time, I thought i'd check to see if anyone new something simple I could check. The right side hydro will not move forward but will travel backwards like normal. Earlier today it did the same thing and cured itself with no adjustments. Just recently ran for 30 minutes with no change. The unit has 27 hrs. and fluid levels are normal. I tried air purging method and moved bypass valves to various positions without improvement. Is there anything I can try before I tie this thing up in the service department for another week.

Thanks in Advance

tigerepairdotcom · Apr 28, 2014

Is there such thing as a bobcat qualitfying for some sort of lemon law? Unfortunately I cannot offer any advice on simple fixes but at this point in time. I would demand a new unit and contact a lawyer otherwise. Time is money. I m sure you have lost both DEALING with this situation. Also I feel for you. :dizzy:

trock · Apr 28, 2014

Make sure they atleast give u a demo mower to use while its in the shop!

Turfman999 · Apr 30, 2014

Still waiting on replacement hydro. Internal valve issue. Shame on me for not paying the extra $600 for the Exmark. The dealer has not even offered a loaner or even acted like they care. They are spending their resources on TV commercials instead of good customer service. I can't wait til my 300 hrs of warranty are up. I can then do my own repairs or trade it in.
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Jeff in AL · Apr 30, 2014

Turfman999 said:
My new Bobcat CRZ 48" with Hydrogear zt2800 hydros. Before I take it back to the dealer for the 3rd time, I thought i'd check to see if anyone new something simple I could check. The right side hydro will not move forward but will travel backwards like normal. Earlier today it did the same thing and cured itself with no adjustments. Just recently ran for 30 minutes with no change. The unit has 27 hrs. and fluid levels are normal. I tried air purging method and moved bypass valves to various positions without improvement. Is there anything I can try before I tie this thing up in the service department for another week.

Thanks in Advance

From your choice of words you used, it sounds like this problem is intermittent and NOT happening all the time...

tigerepairdotcom said:
Is there such thing as a bobcat qualitfying for some sort of lemon law? Unfortunately I cannot offer any advice on simple fixes but at this point in time. I would demand a new unit and contact a lawyer otherwise. Time is money. I m sure you have lost both DEALING with this situation. Also I feel for you.

This IS in fact a simple fix/repair! A lawyer? Ohh, good Lord!

Turfman999 said:
Still waiting on replacement hydro. Internal valve issue. Shame on me for not paying the extra $600 for the Exmark. The dealer has not even offered a loaner or even acted like they care. They are spending their resources on TV commercials instead of good customer service. I can't wait til my 300 hrs of warranty are up. I can then do my own repairs or trade it in.
Posted via Mobile Device

Larry,

First off, you came here for advice/input, so here ya go...

Fact is, the mower you purchased is a HOMEOWNER mower, period! And it appears that you are using it commercially and having problems! I'm not suggesting that either the starter problem you had earlier with this mower or this hydro issue you currently have with only 27 hours are directly related to you using it commercially, but you WILL have problems using it as such down the road!
Perhaps, you should have spent the extra $$$ to get a commercial model with a commercial warranty and commercial components... NOT a homeowner model with a 3 year/300 hour warranty, just sayin!

As far as your comment that you should have paid the extra $600 for the Exmark over the Bob-Cat is quite funny being that you made a post on 7/12/2011 with a leaking ZT-2800 trans in an Exmark Phazer! And another post on 3/18/2012 looking to see if anyone knew where to send a ZT-2800 to be rebuilt!

As far as the hydro issue you currently have, there is only 3 possible causes!
1) The pinch bolt on the RTN or Control Bracket is loose/shifted.
2) A check valve is sticking in the Center Section. (IF the problem comes and goes as stated).
3) A check valve is stuck or fell out of the Center Section. (IF the problem is constant).

Just to clairify to others that read this... The OP purchased a homeowner unit that appears to be being used commercially, has had a starter issue already and currently has a hydro issue, all in 27 hours... NEITHER problem has anything to do with Bob-Cat and he regrets not spending the $600 more for the Exmark which he has had trans problems with in the past... Hmmmm?????

Bob-Cat designed the mower, builds the frame, deck and assembles the unit. Bob-Cat nor Exmark build the engines, make the tires, belts, pulleys, wire harness, ignition switch, battery, pumps/wheel motors etc.

In this case, you had a starter issue with a Kawasaki Engine and now have a hydro problem with an IZT made by Hydro-Gear.

Glad to see your dealer appears to be on the right track to get you going finally!

Turfman999 · May 1, 2014

Yes, I was fully aware that this unit is not for heavy duty commercial use. I use it in a very limited commercial capacity. I have larger commercial units for the heavy lifting. My previous Exmark unit had some issues with the zt2800 hydros, but that was to be expected with the 2200 hrs. of service that I received from it. It was still fully functional with minor seal leakage when retired.I have no issues with the bobcat design, just the lack of parts availability and concern for someone who just spent $4,800.00 and has their mower sitting in the shop. I sense there is a personal connection of some type with the previous response. You are very correct about the components being the same on almost any brand. Even if I mowed only my personal acre of lawn,I would expect to get at least 300 hrs.of care free service. If these units are no better than that, I could just buy four craftsman tractors instead.
Posted via Mobile Device

pugs · May 1, 2014

You bought a residential machine and now expect to be treated like a commercial customer....demos, instant repairs....If you wanted better service you should have stepped up to a Fastcat Pro or ProCat. Residential machines get used once a week so there is no rush to fix them.

Jeff in AL · May 1, 2014

Turfman999 said:
Yes, I was fully aware that this unit is not for heavy duty commercial use. I use it in a very limited commercial capacity. I have larger commercial units for the heavy lifting. My previous Exmark unit had some issues with the zt2800 hydros, but that was to be expected with the 2200 hrs. of service that I received from it. It was still fully functional with minor seal leakage when retired.I have no issues with the bobcat design, just the lack of parts availability and concern for someone who just spent $4,800.00 and has their mower sitting in the shop. I sense there is a personal connection of some type with the previous response. You are very correct about the components being the same on almost any brand. Even if I mowed only my personal acre of lawn,I would expect to get at least 300 hrs.of care free service. If these units are no better than that, I could just buy four craftsman tractors instead.
Posted via Mobile Device

Larry,

The CRZ is not intended to be used in any commercial capacity at all. It is designed and constructed with components, which include the engine and IZT units that are intended for homeowner use only.

As I said in my previous post, regardless of how it is used at this point with 27 hours on it, I would agree that neither are due to how it is being used, but that with continued commercial use will greatly reduce it's normal intended life.

If you have an issue with your dealer that seem out of line, I would suggest contacting SGC (Bob-Cat) and express your concerns to them. Perhaps, they can get your issue taken care of quicker or get you to a different dealer that had more knowledge to diagnose issues?

Sure, I have a personal connection as you mentioned... I am a Bob-Cat dealer!

The components used to produce a specific model from an OEM is done so with an end price in mind to compete. In this case on the CRZ, the Kawasaki engine is a "basic" engine and the ZT-2800 IZT's are "basic" are not intended for any commercial or heavy use.
Hydro-Gear has the bottom of the line ZT-2800 up to the HD commercial ZT-5400. Same goes with Kawasaki, bottom of the line engines with limited features to keep cost down for the OEM up to the FX series for HD commercial use.

Sure, you could have purchased 4 Craftsman tractors instead, but I'm not going there...

Again, glad to see the hydro issue is being taken care of, hopefully!

Jeff

herler · May 2, 2014

Way I see things if you've cut 20 lawns with it then you've already put an entire year's worth of wear and tear on that machine, or at least that's how the manufacturer figured it... Oh, and your dealer is a patient man, I tell you.

Turfman999 · May 2, 2014

Update: Actually I have cut 29 residential lawns over two weeks. 6 hrs of the time was running time at the dealer lot tyring to figure out that the starter was bad. As of today, I have found out that the hydro is on back order and may take two more weeks. The dealer has now offered me a loaner for that time period. I do believe that the dealer gets caught in the middle when parts aren't available at a very busy time of year. As a buyer, the warranty is 300 hrs. of commercial use or 3 years for a homeowner who cuts their own lawn every 6-7 days. I use this thing with kid gloves and proper maintenance. If these units are not built to handle at least 300 hrs. then why would anybody want to purchase one. Keep in mind my previous ZTR had 2200 hrs. over an 8 year period. I performed all maintenance and repairs in that time frame at an approx. cost of about $500 in parts. I chose the unit I purchased with the exact same specs as my previous mower. Its sounds like I may have been lucky, but Bobcat, Hydrogear and Kawasaki all tell me 300 hrs. should not be a problem.

PS. My old unit was still 100% functional with minor hydro seal leaks and some startup blue smoke (20 secs.) from worn rings.

pugs · May 2, 2014

Turfman999 said:
As a buyer, the warranty is 300 hrs. of commercial use or 3 years for a homeowner who cuts their own lawn every 6-7 days.

No, the warranty is for RESIDENTIAL use. Not commercial period. RZ in the product name means RESIDENTIAL. You bought a RESIDENTIAL machine. You skimped. Plain and simple. Honestly we dont do loaners in the first place. But, if we did, I can tell you that machine would NEVER qualify for one. You want commercial service, buy a commercial machine PERIOD.

Jeff in AL · May 2, 2014

Turfman999 said:
Update: Actually I have cut 29 residential lawns over two weeks. 6 hrs of the time was running time at the dealer lot tyring to figure out that the starter was bad. As of today, I have found out that the hydro is on back order and may take two more weeks. The dealer has now offered me a loaner for that time period. I do believe that the dealer gets caught in the middle when parts aren't available at a very busy time of year. As a buyer, the warranty is 300 hrs. of commercial use or 3 years for a homeowner who cuts their own lawn every 6-7 days. I use this thing with kid gloves and proper maintenance. If these units are not built to handle at least 300 hrs. then why would anybody want to purchase one. Keep in mind my previous ZTR had 2200 hrs. over an 8 year period. I performed all maintenance and repairs in that time frame at an approx. cost of about $500 in parts. I chose the unit I purchased with the exact same specs as my previous mower. Its sounds like I may have been lucky, but Bobcat, Hydrogear and Kawasaki all tell me 300 hrs. should not be a problem.

PS. My old unit was still 100% functional with minor hydro seal leaks and some startup blue smoke (20 secs.) from worn rings.

Larry,

I gotta say, something isn't passing the sniff test here...

Ok, so your using a residential mower for commercial use, check!

Now, your saying the dealer racked up 6 hours RUN time on an engine that had a STARTING issue?
I can see no reason in hell that it should have OR would have taken 6 hours to figure out a starter problem. Even IF it was a "hot" issue!
That engine is no hotter in 15 hours of run time than it is in 15 minutes of run time, period!

As for the "warranty", either you were misinformed or misread the warranty statement... The unit is a Residential Mower with a 3 year/300 hour warranty from your date of purchase... The warranty expires when either the 36 months are meet OR 300 hours are meet, period!

I assume you have a 942600 model, if so, I can see that the factory has one left side in stock, but the right side shows "0".

I would be curious to know what the failure was to begin with and why it wasn't fixed as opposed replacing the entire IZT? Surely it would be quicker to repair it then to wait for a whole unit that is B/O.

Have you talked to Bob-Cat?

Turfman999 · May 2, 2014

Jeff in AL said:
Larry,

I gotta say, something isn't passing the sniff test here...

Ok, so your using a residential mower for commercial use, check!

Now, your saying the dealer racked up 6 hours RUN time on an engine that had a STARTING issue?
I can see no reason in hell that it should have OR would have taken 6 hours to figure out a starter problem. Even IF it was a "hot" issue!
That engine is no hotter in 15 hours of run time than it is in 15 minutes of run time, period!

As for the "warranty", either you were misinformed or misread the warranty statement... The unit is a Residential Mower with a 3 year/300 hour warranty from your date of purchase... The warranty expires when either the 36 months are meet OR 300 hours are meet, period!

I assume you have a 942600 model, if so, I can see that the factory has one left side in stock, but the right side shows "0".

I would be curious to know what the failure was to begin with and why it wasn't fixed as opposed replacing the entire IZT? Surely it would be quicker to repair it then to wait for a whole unit that is B/O.

Have you talked to Bob-Cat?

Posted via Mobile Device

Turfman999 · May 2, 2014

I wish someone like you was doing the repair. These guys dont crack open any units period. In fact, with my prevous mower,I couldn't find anyone in Columbus, Oh that does. It would be a great place to open a hydrogear repair shop. As for the starter, it was a hot issue and it truely came back with 6 extra hrs. If my warranty is actually zero, then maybe I should give up mowing because I can't afford $8,000.00 for actual commercial unit. I can buy alot of parts for the extra $3200
Posted via Mobile Device

Jeff in AL · May 2, 2014

Turfman999 said:
I wish someone like you was doing the repair. These guys dont crack open any units period. In fact, with my prevous mower,I couldn't find anyone in Columbus, Oh that does. It would be a great place to open a hydrogear repair shop. As for the starter, it was a hot issue and it truely came back with 6 extra hrs. If my warranty is actually zero, then maybe I should give up mowing because I can't afford $8,000.00 for actual commercial unit. I can buy alot of parts for the extra $3200
Posted via Mobile Device

Hydro-Gear Factory is in Illinois, but there are many Hydro-Gear service centers that can take care of any parts or service that you need. As far as sending in just a ZT-2800 unit and saying I want it "rebuilt", dealers have no way to mount it up and run it/test it until it is back in the unit and do such.

Technically speaking, a Hydro-Gear failure of any kind has nothing to do with the OEM, such as Bob-Cat... However, Bob-Cat like a few other OEM's tend to cover another manufacturers parts and then Bob-Cat or the OEM will usually get their money back. From a business standpoint, it is easier and cleaner to deal with 1 OEM then to have to go through 2 or 3.

Well, if it took 6 hours to conclude a starter issue, they couldn't find their a$$ with both hands either... No way in hell, it should have happened that way!

Your warranty is NOT "zero", your warranty is 3year/300hour. You using it commercially will rack up the 300 hours way before the 3 years as opposed to how a true homeowner would rack up the hours/time. Usually, a homeowner will hit the years first before the hours.

As for the comment of not being able to afford an $8000 Commercial Mower... The Fast-Cat Pro 20/48 is less then $6000 and is a Commercial Rated mower WITH ZT-3100's that are Commercial Rated. This unit also comes with your choice of 5 year/500 hours OR 2 year/2000 hour warranty!

There are always things that can be done to get parts quicker... Lets just say, that just because their inventory shows "0", doesn't mean they don't have one at the factory.

pugs · May 2, 2014

Jeff in AL said:
I assume you have a 942600 model, if so, I can see that the factory has one left side in stock, but the right side shows "0".

I would be curious to know what the failure was to begin with and why it wasn't fixed as opposed replacing the entire IZT? Surely it would be quicker to repair it then to wait for a whole unit that is B/O.

Have you talked to Bob-Cat?

Yah, I see our distributor has none of either in stock. Honestly I doubt we would tear into any of them under warranty. I have had them apart at a Ferris school but in reality they would just have you swap the whole unit if it was not acting properly. On the Bobcat side I have not run into it on the transaxles but on the pumps/motors they never had us tear into one. Test it, if test bad, replace.

Honestly even outside of warranty we would probably do the same thing with the pumps. I dont have a test stand to check the pump after repairs...and not going to waste time pulling it, repairing and putting back in machine only to find something is still wrong.

Turfman999 · May 2, 2014

The only reason I found out it wasn't available was the bobcat factory guy gave me the distributor name. They pulled the order and told me to let the dealer know. Nobody would have even told me till I called.
For future reference, can you visually see defective parts when you open up a zt2800? My most extensive experience is replacing the main shaft and bearing. Some day when I have another failure I am going to totally tear one down.

Thank You
Posted via Mobile Device

pugs · May 2, 2014

If something went terribly wrong yes you would notice parts torn up. But a sticking valve might not be very noticeable once inside.

If this was not under warranty you could also check with the hydrogear distributor for availability of the transaxle although generally they dont stock as much as the OEM of the machine. However since this is warranty the part will have to come from Bobcat.

Jeff in AL · May 2, 2014

pugs said:
Yah, I see our distributor has none of either in stock. Honestly I doubt we would tear into any of them under warranty. I have had them apart at a Ferris school but in reality they would just have you swap the whole unit if it was not acting properly. On the Bobcat side I have not run into it on the transaxles but on the pumps/motors they never had us tear into one. Test it, if test bad, replace.

Honestly even outside of warranty we would probably do the same thing with the pumps. I dont have a test stand to check the pump after repairs...and not going to waste time pulling it, repairing and putting back in machine only to find something is still wrong.

My distributor has 1 of the left side, but not the right.

With the seperate pump and wheel motor set ups, you pretty much know what and where the problem is based on flow meter readings... With the IZT units, such as in this case, you know where the problem is and it can only be one of the 3 things listed to cause such a problem.

On the ZT-2800, axles breaking are not uncommon on units that are being over used! Here is a picture of a commercially used unit with a ZT-2800...

Jeff in AL · May 2, 2014

Turfman999 said:
The only reason I found out it wasn't available was the bobcat factory guy gave me the distributor name. They pulled the order and told me to let the dealer know. Nobody would have even told me till I called.
For future reference, can you visually see defective parts when you open up a zt2800? My most extensive experience is replacing the main shaft and bearing. Some day when I have another failure I am going to totally tear one down.

Thank You
Posted via Mobile Device

I get my parts from my distributor which is in North Carolina, they get their parts from a warehouse in.... Wait for it..... Ohio!

When I said earlier that the "factory" had one left side and no right side, that was checking inventory in Ohio.

The actual factory where the unit was made in Johnson Creek Wisconsin has 41 of one side and 79 of the other side in stock... So, there is no way in hell it should be more then a day or 2 to have one drop shipped from JC to your servicing dealer.

So, there is your good news for the day! :weightlifter:

Brand New Bobcat Hydro problem

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