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Clutch Bolt snapped (Hustler/Kawasaki)... any tips to tackle?

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shawk

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I was mowing the other day and I heard a clank and the mower stopped. :( the clutch had fallen off my low hour 5 year old Hustler Super Z. I found half the bolt and the clutch on the ground. So now I need to try to remove the bolt. Anyone done this before with clutch bolt? I'm assuming this thing will be rock solid and not a simple easy out job. Any thoughts appreciated... will tackle in the next few days when I can make time. Shop is 4 wks out on repair. I'm assuming the clutch should be replaced too? Assuming that it locked up or something... I have no idea why this would snap. Thanks!!
 
#4 ·
IMO take it to a welding shop and let them tig weld a nut onto the broken bolt and get it out. It's way to big of a bolt for a extractor. If the extractor breaks in there you're SOL because you can't weld it now. It's a ten minute job at a welding shop but it might be a 100 bucks.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Hopefully, it will be an easy project. Usually, once the head comes off, the tension is relieved, and the bolt should come out without much trouble. If it is corroded in place, everything changes, but it is still possible. Since this is the end of the crankshaft, I would hesitate welding or heating it ... you will almost certainly destroy the seal, and risk other damages from excessive heat. In this situation, I much prefer mechanical extraction without the use of heat. You can always take that route if all else fails. Another approach is to drill & tap with a left-handed thread. Insert the appropriate bolt & hit it with a small impact.

Good luck ... ... ...
 
#6 ·
Fuzzy1 said:
Hopefully, it will be an easy project. Usually, once the head comes off, the tension is relieved, and the bolt should come out without much trouble. If it is corroded in place, everything changes, but it is still possible. Since this is the end of the crankshaft, I would hesitate welding or heating it ... you will almost certainly destroy the seal, and risk other damages from excessive heat. In this situation, I much prefer mechanical extraction without the use of heat. You can always take that route if all else fails. Another approach is to drill & tap with a left-handed thread. Insert the appropriate bolt & hit it with a small impact.

Good luck ... ... ...
Click to expand...
Tig weld can control the heat. You can weld two razor blades together without distorting them if you are decent enough to be certified. You can not weld it if extractor breaks in there and they're impossible to drill out a broken extractor. I would drill the whole bolt out and re-tap the threads before I tried an extractor on that part of an engine. Two different metals that have been heat cycled is going to be tough to us a extractor on. I have seen where people tried to use them on cylinder heads and blocks multiple times and broke them off or cracked the surrounding material like cast ears on heads or timing covers.
 
#7 ·
unkownfl said:
Tig weld can control the heat. You can weld two razor blades together without distorting them if you are decent enough to be certified. You can not weld it if extractor breaks in there and they're impossible to drill out a broken extractor. I would drill the whole bolt out and re-tap the threads before I tried an extractor on that part of an engine. Two different metals that have been heat cycled is going to be tough to us a extractor on. I have seen where people tried to use them on cylinder heads and blocks multiple times and broke them off or cracked the surrounding material like cast ears on heads or timing covers.
Click to expand...
If you try welding to the end of a crankshaft, there is nothing between you and block except for the oil seal ... and, if you're using enough heat to weld something onto a recessed 10mm stub of a bolt ... inside that crankshaft ... you WILL cook the seal. The tapped hole in the crank is only about 1" deep ... the bolt is always a bit short of that, so it doesn't bottom out in the hole ... assuming the bolt is sheared up, inside the crank, it means something less than 3/4"-7/8" is left in there. To me, it's not worth chancing a complete engine teardown to try welding something onto the stub.

I've seen the stories about welding razor blades together, and I'd love to hear how many certified weldors can claim they've actually done so. Low amps .. super fine ground & polished electrodes .. special filler rods .. VERY high dollar machines all make for some nice tricks, but I still think it is inappropriate for this situation. I've been through this very same exercise years ago on my own Kawasaki FD590V, and the GRAB-IT extractor worked just fine. If it didn't, I would have progressed to a left-hand twist drill bit in hopes that it would grab and unscrew the bolt. Failing that, tapping with a left-handed thread and inserting a short bolt should certainly get it out. Don't forget ... this involves working upside down, and in some pretty cramped quarters unless the motor has been removed for the repairs.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Turned out to be an easy extract! Sprayed it pretty good and left it sit... then sprayed, drilled and extracted. Gotta say, it turned out extremely easy. The bolt had to have been lose already. Mounted the clutch back on for kicks and it's locked up (didn't thing it would work). Now time to do a little homework before buying a new one.... however I can't be without long. Thanks!!
 
#11 ·
Fuzzy1 said:
If you try welding to the end of a crankshaft, there is nothing between you and block except for the oil seal ... and, if you're using enough heat to weld something onto a recessed 10mm stub of a bolt ... inside that crankshaft ... you WILL cook the seal. The tapped hole in the crank is only about 1" deep ... the bolt is always a bit short of that, so it doesn't bottom out in the hole ... assuming the bolt is sheared up, inside the crank, it means something less than 3/4"-7/8" is left in there. To me, it's not worth chancing a complete engine teardown to try welding something onto the stub.

I've seen the stories about welding razor blades together, and I'd love to hear how many certified weldors can claim they've actually done so. Low amps .. super fine ground & polished electrodes .. special filler rods .. VERY high dollar machines all make for some nice tricks, but I still think it is inappropriate for this situation. I've been through this very same exercise years ago on my own Kawasaki FD590V, and the GRAB-IT extractor worked just fine. If it didn't, I would have progressed to a left-hand twist drill bit in hopes that it would grab and unscrew the bolt. Failing that, tapping with a left-handed thread and inserting a short bolt should certainly get it out. Don't forget ... this involves working upside down, and in some pretty cramped quarters unless the motor has been removed for the repairs.
Click to expand...
You can weld it without an issue and why would you need to tear down an engine to replace a crankshaft seal? Drain the oil and pull the seal and replace??? If you take your time with a tig it can be done. I have done turbos and have seen 100k engines done this way. It isn't fantasy to weld razor blades together. I'm telling you if the extractor breaks in there you're not going to drill it out with any drill bit period. And you cant get a weld to stick to the material of an extractor. I'm guessing you are only familiar with people welding boilers or trailers in their backyard? I'm not trying to knock you I'm just saying a tig is precision welding technique/equipment and is used to weld all types of high end material without causing distortion or walking the heat up a 4 inch crankshaft hot enough to melt a seal. Hell the engine runs at 200+ degrees without cooking this "seal" that requires an engine tear down if you mess it up. The seal is still going to have oil on the other end of it. You can boil water in a plastic bottle if you take your time I'm sure an engine seal is engineered a tad bit better than you're giving it credit for.

Glad the extractor worked out though.
 
#13 ·
whiffyspark said:
Just my opinion but grab it is for light duty bolts Especially ones that still have heads on them. Ie Philips torx etc
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Click to expand...
I have no idea what you based your opinion on, but the folks who make the GRAB-IT don't share your thoughts. I've had the full set of these for many years and have never had a complaint with them. The "PRO" series that you buy from the manufacturer and at the trade shows is definitely better made than the Chinese ones you will see on the TV infomercials. As far as the bolts being easier to remove if they still have heads on them ... I have found just the opposite to be true ... a LOT of the stress on a bolt is relieved when the head breaks off, and it usually makes the stub much easier to remove.
 
#14 ·
Fuzzy1 said:
I have no idea what you based your opinion on, but the folks who make the GRAB-IT don't share your thoughts. I've had the full set of these for many years and have never had a complaint with them. The "PRO" series that you buy from the manufacturer and at the trade shows is definitely better made than the Chinese ones you will see on the TV infomercials. As far as the bolts being easier to remove if they still have heads on them ... I have found just the opposite to be true ... a LOT of the stress on a bolt is relieved when the head breaks off, and it usually makes the stub much easier to remove.
Click to expand...
You completely missed my point.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#15 ·
whiffyspark said:
You completely missed my point.
Posted via Mobile Device
Click to expand...
Tell me where I went wrong ... you said "Just my opinion but grab it is for light duty bolts Especially ones that still have heads on them. Ie Philips torx etc"

#1 you have an opinion ... check

#2 grab-it is for light duty bolts ... 10mm IS light duty ... and the #4 GRAB-IT is made specifically for that size bolt ... check

#3 Especially bolts with heads on them ... on this point both I and the manufacturer say you are incorrect ... check

Now tell me, just what point have I missed ???
 
#17 ·
Are the bearings just locked up, or are there other problems ??? Many times, the bearings are replaceable at a fraction of the cost of a new part. Depends on the model of your particular clutch. Do you have the number on it ???
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Fuzzy1 said:
A guy on the auction site is showing them at $209 & free ship.
Click to expand...
Thanks Fuzzy! I went ahead and ordered today. I love supporting my local business' but our local shop wanted $335 ++ for one. I saw those on Ebay almost bit but ended up buying from a shop about 40 miles from me who is drop shipping it to me for $235 + ship. If I need something, I'll head their way... ;) Best wishes!!
 
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