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Lesco Fertilization Program Help Please

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macani

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
This year I started with Lesco fertilizer. I live in Western Michigan. I visited my local John Deere/Lesco and they gave me a 5 or 6 step program to follow. My grass was seeded Sept 2012. This year I have some weed problems, but just this weekend I applied some Speedzone from John Deere/Lesco store.

Here is the programs that they gave me to follow

5 Step Program
Step 1 - Dimension 13-0-0 30% slow release (already applied around April 15)
Step 2 - 25-0-6 slow release
Step 3 - Merit 24-0-8
Step 4 - 25-0-6 50% slow release
Step 5 - 5-0-30 a/c winter fertilizer

6 Step Program
Step 1 - Dimension 13-0-0 30% slow release (already applied around April 15)
Step 2 - 32-0-8 30% slow release
Step 3 - 32-0-8 30% slow release
Step 4 - Merit 24-0-8
Step 5 - 32-0-8 30% slow release
Step 6 - 5-0-30 a/c winter fertilizer

Are these good program to follow? Do they need some adjustment? To follow 5 step or 6 step program ? I want to put down another Step around Memorial Day ? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks !!!
 
#2 ·
A few questions:

1) What are the application rates this JDL rep recommends you use for the fert? 25-0-6 or 32-0-8 isn't enough information. How much N does he recommend you apply in each step?

2) What ai rate is he recommending for Dimension?

3) What ai rate is he recommending for Merit?

4) What does 'a/c winter fertilizer' mean? I don't understand the 'a/c' part.

I don't usually like to ask fert dealers or JDL reps what program to use. Maybe you'll get lucky and find someone who knows something about lawns, but most of the time they're only trying to sell you what makes them the most commission, not what's going to help you.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Skipster,

They didn't provide me with any of that info, that why I would hopping to come across someone on here that can help me get a good program for my western MI grass. He just gave me a sheet with 5 or 6 step program to follow.
 
#4 · (Edited)
These programs are more than likely put together by the Store Manager for your area of the country. NONE OF THE STEPS ARE ETCHED IN STONE! They can be modified to suit your business needs and application methods. I have a granular program that my co-worker and I put together for our JDL branch for our area and it works very well but I tell people every day that it can be modified to fit their needs. As for application rates and active ingredient rates, those will be found on the bag. I try to recommend 1# of Nitrogen per 1,000 sq. ft. for good green up. The active ingredient rate will fall into line with that rate and you'll have to figure that out for each product. With that I'll get into your 5-step program. I won't comment on the 6 step program because it's not much different. It's just got an extra fertilization included and it's a different analysis (rates will change - you'll have to read the bags). Also, the date for Merit may be too late for your area if you follow that program as the extra fertilization pushes it later into the season and could fall near the August 19th treatment date - which would be too late for our area but maybe not yours?

5 Step Program
Step 1 - Dimension 13-0-0 30% slow release (already applied around April 15)
Step 2 - 25-0-6 slow release
Step 3 - Merit 24-0-8
Step 4 - 25-0-6 50% slow release
Step 5 - 5-0-30 a/c winter fertilizer

Typically we run our treatments at 6 week intervals so the April 15th target date for step 1 is perfect. It's the same date that we recommend in our area of Massachusetts.

Step 1 looks good. It's a fertilizer with Dimension Crabgrass control. This will fertilize the lawn and prevent crabgrass for 90 days, which means it'll run out in mid July (the bags say 90-120 day control of Crabgrass but I typically see it breaking down in 90 days). I would apply this so that you're getting about 1# of Nitrogen per 1,000 sq. ft.

Step 2 is a regular fertilizer with some amount of slow release in the mix (you didn't specify). This is O.K. and will Green up the lawns nicely. However, it will do nothing for weeds or crabgrass and this is the PRIME TIME of year to kill weeds or apply a 2nd dose of crabgrass pre-emergent control, both of which are not that much more expensive than regular fertilizer. In our location, we recommend a 2nd dose of Dimension so that the Crabgrass pre-emergent control will carry you an additional 90 days from the date of this application (usually around May 27th - 6 weeks from step 1), thus it'll wear out in late August when summer is coming to a close. For weeds, we recommend granular Lockup 0-0-7 at the same time if it's needed (the entire lawn won't usually need it and it can be applied where needed).

Step 3 is Fertilizer + Grub Control. This is perfect to apply for step 3 (usually around July 8th - 6 weeks from Step 2) as the Imidicloprid can be applied between June 1st and August 15th. The fertilizer will maintain the green coloring in irrigated lawns while the grub control will move into the roots for the next 4 months. When the grubs hatch out in late August/early September, they'll ingest the Imidicloprid and perish.

Step 4 looks like another application of the same product from Step 2. That is fine for this application as you'll now be in August, around the 19th - 6 weeks from Step 3.

Step 5 looks like a "Winterizer" fertilizer to me and should be applied around September 30th - 6 weeks from Step 4.

Overall, it seems like they have a program that would work for your area pretty well. The only concern I have is Step 2. Instead of using a regular fertilizer, I would change that over to a second application of Dimension + fertilizer so that you'll get much better control of crabgrass throughout the long summer.

Programs are like a first and last name - everybody's got one. It's up to you to create your own that works for you. There are Pro's and Con's to EVERY program out there so none of them are "right" or "wrong". Keep that in mind when asking for opinions!
 
#5 ·
Skipster said:
A few questions:

1) What are the application rates this JDL rep recommends you use for the fert? 25-0-6 or 32-0-8 isn't enough information. How much N does he recommend you apply in each step?
Click to expand...
Usually with regular fertilizers (fertilizers NOT mixed with other products) most people use 1# of Nitrogen as a rule of thumb (not all the time though). If you're using his method and applying only fertilizers by themselves (not mixed with other products such as Dimension, Merit, Allectus, Lockup, etc...) you can easily get the appropriate rate rather easily. This can be done by taking the first number (in this instance either 25 or 32) and divide each one into the number 100. Thus, the 25-0-6 would be applied at 4 lbs. per 1,000 sq. ft. and the 32-0-8 would be applied at 3.125 lbs. per 1,000 sq. ft. At these application rates you would get 12,500 sq. ft (half of 25) per bag of the 25-0-6 or 16,000 sq. ft. (half of 32) per bag of the 32-0-8.

Of course, if your goal would be to apply .75 lbs per nitrogen per 1,000 sq. ft., none of these numbers would be the same.
 
#6 ·
A few soil tests for your area is really the first step. Are you on sandy soil--or more like clay? Sandy soil would be better served with the higher ratio of slow-release nitrogen. Skip is right--you should understand the active ingredient rate of Dimension (dithiopyr)--sometimes they suggest that 0.17 lbs per acre is enough--maybe not. Maybe you are not happy with the absolute minimum rate. If you like quality better than the big companies--more would be better. A/c is the salesman's term for "All Chemical"--no slow release--cheap.
A full pound of nitrogen seven times per year is very high--expensive and if you have to mow this grass you will not be happy. Golf greens, baseball and football fields need the nitrogen--home lawns about half that much per year. If you don't know how to calculate the nitrogen rate get the salesman to help you.

Hissing is right--you don't want the Merit too late--early July is best.

I, myself, do not care for the high potash winter fertilizer. Stay with the 25-0-6.

And I don't see any weed control. Around here I prefer weed control overall in June and October.

And there is a good chance you will need to spot spray crabgrass and maybe nutsedge during July and August.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Hissing Cobra, Thank you very much for your recommendation and input.

Can I get a little more input for Step 4 and 5. I want to overseed around Labor Day.

I read around here somewhere to

Step 4 - apply Starter Fertilizer in August,

- Overseed no later then 2nd week of September

- Starter Fertilizer again first week of October

Step 5 - Winterizer mid-October
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
RigglePLC,

I was a little late this year for soil test ( something I'm going to do next year) but its more like clay.

In which Step do I include weed control ? Is it granular Lockup 0-0-7 that Hissing Cobra was saying?
 
#9 · (Edited)
No problem. It sounds like your season in Michigan is very similar to ours here in Massachusetts. For that reason, I'll try to recommend things that will work for us and may work for you (it's up to you to decide that).

If you're seeding, the best time of year to do that is the first week of September. That will give you a good 8 weeks for your new seed to germinate and to grow tall enough to be mowed a couple of times before the cold weather rolls in during late October around Halloween. Because grass needs 7 to 30 days to germinate (Perennial Rye is 7-10 days, Fescues are 14-21, and Bluegrass is 21-28) and another 30 days to grow the blades, you'll surely need that 8 weeks or 60 days to grow it in. Thus, your program will be modified and you will not follow either that 5 or 6 step program for this season.

If I had to set up a program for your area (based on similarities to my area in terms of weather) this is what I would recommend.

Step 1 April 15th - Fertilizer + Dimension

Step 2 May 27th - Fertilizer + Dimension. Also, I would pick up some bags of 0-0-7 Lockup to use on those lawns that have weeds. You can do both treatments on the same day.

Step 3 July 15th - Fertilizer + Merit

Step 4 September 1st - Slice seed lawns and apply Starter Fertilizer

Step 5 October 1st - Starter Fertilizer

Step 6 November 1st - "Winterizer Fertilizer"

This program, if it works for your area, will control the weeds in the early part of the season, keep crabgrass from ruining what you've got in your lawns, and provide a clean canvas in which to sow your seeds in the first week of September. Yes, you will be giving it excess amounts of Nitrogen for this season but most of that will be toward your new seed. If you're applying at 1# per 1,000 sq. ft. you'll be applying 6 #'s of Nitrogen for this season. Most cool season grasses require 4.5 to 5.5 pounds of N per season so it's not that excessive.

Again, programs are always changeable and nothing is etched in stone. You need to find one that will work for your area and provide the needed controls for certain times of year.

Good luck!

P.S. Riggle is correct on the soil test. Take a pound of soil to JDL and have them send it to CLC Labs (that's the soil testing facility that JDL uses). That test will tell you everything you need to know about your soil and recommendations for lime will given based on those results.
 
#11 ·
My personal preference is to use a Slice Seeder (also called a slit seeder). It'll cut grooves into the soil and deposit seed into those grooves. The seed will then have soil contact on all sides except for the top. I also recommend running the Slice Seeder across the lawns in both directions to create a checkerboard pattern.

You could aerate if you wanted to but you'd really have to beat up the bare areas real good before seeding.

As for top dressing, I would only do that if there were a lot of uneven areas in the soil so that they could be leveled out.

Like programs, there's a 100 different ways this can be done. It's all based on personal preference, time constraints, etc.... I mean, you could bring in a bulldozer and re-level everything, rake it out, and then seed! However, do you really need to do that? LOL!
 
#12 ·
RigglePLC said:
A/c is the salesman's term for "All Chemical"--no slow release--cheap.
Click to expand...
I don't think this is bad. Just one of many different ways to do it.

RigglePLC said:
Golf greens, baseball and football fields need the nitrogen--home lawns about half that much per year.
Click to expand...
Most creeping bentgrass greens in your area are getting 2 to 2.75 lbs N/M/yr. I think most of your lawns are getting more than that.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Hissing Cobra,

For my Step 2 was recommended 13-0-0 Dimension and 0-0-7 Lockup

They didn't have 0-0-7 Lockup so they gave me 2 following bags to achieve my Step 2
Lockup Extra 2 18-0-4M and Dimension 0.10% 0-0-7M

Is this sufficient enough for Dimension and Lockup? Thanks !
 
#14 · (Edited)
It sure is. Read the label before application to understand what this product does. It is a fertilizer to green up the lawn and keep it growing, a Crabgrass pre-emergent (prevents certain grasses and weeds from growing) control (Dimension), and a Post-emergent (controls Broadleaf Weeds after they've emerged) weed control (Lockup). This product is best applied to a wet lawn and then undisturbed for 24 hours. It can then be watered in to activate the Dimension crabgrass control.

The good thing about Lockup is that it works by contacting the weeds (if allowed to remain on the leaves for up to 24 hours) and also by being taken in by the roots (Systemically) of the weeds. It works very well if the directions are followed and will control those "hard to control" weeds such as Clover and Wild Violets. On those weeds, a second or even possibly a third application may be needed. If more than one application is needed, space them about 25 days apart and the 2nd and 3rd applications should be done with the 0-0-7 Lockup, so that you're not reapplying Nitrogen with every application. Also, with the 0-0-7 Lockup, you don't have to do the entire lawn. You can use it on those areas that need it and save the rest inside the bag for a later date. BE CAREFUL OF YOUR FLOWERS, BUSHES, TREES, OR SHRUBS as the Lockup will damage those plantings if it comes in contact with them. I recommend buying a cheap bed sheet that you can drape over those plantings so that you can let the Lockup bounce off of them and back into the lawn (or use an edging shield that's attached to your spreader). When done, carefully remove the sheet, fold it up, and put it in the shed for the next time you need it. Don't use it on a bed!

Remember, you cannot prevent Broadleaf weeds. You can only treat them after they've emerged. Once they've been cleaned up, it's nothing to walk the lawn every now and then and pick them out before they get out of control and to the point where herbicides are needed. In my 3,000 sq. ft. lawn, I haven't applied a herbicide in 4 years. Once per week I spend 5 or 10 minutes and pick them out, leaves and all.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Hissing Cobra,

Here are some picture of my grass. It was seeded Sept 2012, showing some yellow/orange sports in my back yard, what could possibly be from (none in front yard)? Also is this good progress for grass of almost 2 years from seed ?



Also, my neighbor wants to do his grass in September, here are some pics of his yard, what would be best way to do it,? Where to start with his grass?

 
#16 · (Edited)
Your pictures look pretty good especially for newer turf. With that being said, the browing in those pictures indicates to me that it's suffering from lack of water. It's tough to tell from a photograph but that's what it looks like to me. As for your friend, he needs to determine what type of grass he has in the lawn so that he can choose a mix that will match. If he cannot determine the grass type, he may want to spray Round Up on the entire grass area to kill it off. I know it sounds radical but if you cannot match what is there, why keep it?

With that being said, he can follow this routine later this year.

August 15th - Spray Round Up on existing weeds and grass (only if he cannot determine what type of grass he has).

September 1st - Scalp lawn with mower on LOWEST setting and remove clippings. Rent slit seeder and slit seed entire lawn in both directions with seed of his choice (have him do research on the different types for your area). After seeding, apply Lesco 18-24-12 Starter Fertilizer or Equivalent.

October 1st - Apply Lesco 18-24-12 Starter Fertilizer or equivalent.

November 1st - Apply Lesco 18-24-12 Starter Fertilizer or equivalent.

December 1st - Apply Lesco 21-0-21 "Winterizer" or equivalent.

If your winter comes a lot earlier than ours (we still see temps in the 40's/50's in early December) then he should move the December 1st application of 21-0-21 "Winterizer" up to November 1st instead of applying the 18-24-12 Starter Fertilizer on that date. The new seed should begin to come in nicely while the old lawn will slowly decline due to the Round Up spray application as well as the slit seeder tearing through it.

This should get him up and running to have a nice lawn in 2015.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Maconi, Good advice from Cobra.
the orange spots in the fall could be caused by rust fungus. Common problem in fall of new seedings --not serious--usually clears up in a few weeks.

New lawn--you can probably assume the old grass is perennial rye. Nothing unusual. Expect crabgrass to fill in most of the thin spots. The best date to reseed is about August 15, because the soil temperature is at its highest. Under ideal moisture conditions it could be a quarter-inch tall by 96 hours. He is planning to water the grass, right?
Let it get tall--then--mow short to shock it. Rake off residue. If you cannot find a slit seeder or a pro to do it--power rake it a couple of times to expose near 100 percent loose soil. Add starter fert. Sow high quality seed; apply way over the recommended amount if you want to be sure of a thick result. Rake in. Water 30 minutes every day for 30 days.
Typical water cost around here is about a dollar an hour.
Most weeds will be killed by frost in October. Treat for crabgrass in spring--about April.
 
#19 ·
Knowing that the rains around here have been near zero for two weeks--and judging by the brownness in lawns in my neighborhood, I suspect that dry soil is the cause of the brown color. One way to help determine drought injury, is to examine carefully the sunny areas and compare to shady areas. The shady areas will retain their green color longer, because they are protected from the hot sun.
 
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