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Chart for cool season grass growing temperatures?

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mdloops

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I know I saw a chart before showing the germination temperatures for cool season grasses (by variety/type), but is there a similar chart that can be used to predict when each type (TTTF, KBG, Fine Fescue, PRG, etc.) will return from winter dormancy?

Looking to use this data to differentiate which areas should fill in when the weather warms vs which areas are struggling due to soil deficiencies or disease. This time of year it can be tough because ryegrass is awake and growing while other types (fine fescue to name one) appear to still be dormant and not growing.

Thanks
 
#4 ·
#6 ·
mdloops said:
is there a similar chart that can be used to predict when each type (TTTF, KBG, Fine Fescue, PRG, etc.) will return from winter dormancy?
Click to expand...
OK loops, the skies parted and I put on my boots and walked the lawn today. I did two end of August seedings last year with creeping red fescue in them and that fescue is growing very well. Whatever other kind of fine fescue I have in my very old lawn is not growing yet or at least not thick enough for me to notice it. In the past it always seemed like it took a couple of extra weeks and then it was like "Oh, fine fescue!"

I wasn't able to find a nice table of green-up for you, but here is a link to some good information:

https://plant-pest-advisory.rutgers.edu/slow-green-up-of-kentucky-bluegrass/

A quote from it: "Green-up of creeping red fescue is relatively early and not too different from perennial ryegrass."
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Thanks Kerb! I also has some late season fine fescue planting (mid-late September). The vast majority survived winter and like you I went out today after rain and a warmer day and one area in particular is doing well. This area has many broadleaf weeds already (only area of yard) which tells me it is warmer than others by a considerable margin. When the trees bloom this will be a shady area, which is why I planted fine fescue.

I might try hitting the areas of fescue that are slow to grow with some nitrogen to make sure it is not deficient and/or send in a soil sample to be sure.

Remaining question: For the area in the picture. I have two choices. Both are risky

1) Lay down some Tenacity to buy me some time for the FF to grow. I have read conflicting reports about the extent of injury to emerged FF caused by tenacity.

2) Give the FF another week and hit it with drive. In this area I dormant seeded in addition to the late fall seeding, so some seed might be just emerging and some is an inch tall (this is a planned NO MOW area)

3) Do nothing.

4) Wait another 3-4 weeks and put down Dimension plus spray with drive. Hope that the dormant seeded portions survive it.

Which would you guys choose? A combination maybe?

KerbDMK said:
OK loops, the skies parted and I put on my boots and walked the lawn today. I did two end of August seedings last year with creeping red fescue in them and that fescue is growing very well. Whatever other kind of fine fescue I have in my very old lawn is not growing yet or at least not thick enough for me to notice it. In the past it always seemed like it took a couple of extra weeks and then it was like "Oh, fine fescue!"

I wasn't able to find a nice table of green-up for you, but here is a link to some good information:

https://plant-pest-advisory.rutgers.edu/slow-green-up-of-kentucky-bluegrass/

A quote from it: "Green-up of creeping red fescue is relatively early and not too different from perennial ryegrass."
Click to expand...
Image
 
#8 ·
Discussion starter · #9 ·
#10 ·
I would forget about pre-emergents and go with Quinclorac (Drive has it in low concentration). Also, the PRG is no going to fill in unless you have the variety that is regenerating perennial rye; it's a bunch type grass. I'm still ops fan of having it in my seeding mix though. The RPR has been good for practice fields for kids sports for me.

As he often is, Riggle is on the right track following degree days.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
foreplease said:
I would forget about pre-emergents and go with Quinclorac (Drive has it in low concentration). Also, the PRG is no going to fill in unless you have the variety that is regenerating perennial rye; it's a bunch type grass. I'm still ops fan of having it in my seeding mix though. The RPR has been good for practice fields for kids sports for me.

As he often is, Riggle is on the right track following degree days.
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This is 90% creeping red fescue with 10% TTTF and 10% PRG, no PRG is planted in this area.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Well, I may have another unexpected experiment going on now. On Tuesday I put down Scott’s Starter with Weed Preventer (Mesotrione) on my august seedings and winter dormant seedings. My shady mix was 80% fine fescue and my sunny mix was 40% fine fescue by weight with KBG. The Scott’s label says it’s safe for fine fescue.

The information from Syngenta (Tenacity - Mesotrione) says, “Lower use rates are recommended for perennial ryegrass, fine fescue, and St. Augustinegrass.” And “Application at seeding can be made to fine fescue only if it is less than 20% of a seed mixture.

I don’t think I have anything to worry about at the use rate recommended by Scott’s, but we’ll see.
 
Discussion starter · #13 · (Edited)
mdloops said:
This is 90% creeping red fescue with 10% TTTF and 10% PRG, no PRG is planted in this area.
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Clarification:) 80% creeping red, 10% TTTF, 10% PRG.

Kerb: You should be OK. Read pages 51-55 here: http://www.turf.uconn.edu/pdf/research/reports/2007.pdf#page73

Results of this study suggest that although 'Jasper' creeping red fescue may exhibit reduced tolerance to Tenacity when compared to more tolerant turf species such as Kentucky bluegrass, reduced rates of the herbicide can provide adequate crabgrass suppression while maintaining good turf quality. In situations where sequential applications are required to control other noxious weeds (e.g., creeping bentgrass), turfgrass managers should consider using rates ≤3.0 oz ai/A. If a single application of Tenacity is anticipated, rates as high as 5.0 oz may be used with caution due to the potential for increased injury. In this study, although injury was noted for much of the season, improved quality was noted when turfgrass growth was active in the late summer and early autumn months.
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#14 ·
Thanks Loops, You provided just the information I needed. I’m even surprised at just how broad the useful application rate is on that product. You just can’t say whether an herbicide is or isn’t good for something without considering the application rate. However, I often read broad statements made about herbicides, even on this site occasionally.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Very welcome. Anything I can do to give back. I have been helped my share on here. With herbicides it's always about balancing risk.

KerbDMK said:
Thanks Loops, You provided just the information I needed. I'm even surprised at just how broad the useful application rate is on that product. You just can't say whether an herbicide is or isn't good for something without considering the application rate. However, I often read broad statements made about herbicides, even on this site occasionally.
Click to expand...
 
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mdloops
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