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Tansaxle vs pump wheel motor (parker)

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#21 ·
Ridin' Green said:
I thought that was what they were talking about earlier......he 16 cc pumps and motors vs the 16 cc unitized Parker units and I mentioned the 5400's as they are the only ones I really hear anyone claim are power hungry. The JD unitized system is 13cc for both the pump and motors with gear reduction and they have lots of toque and are quite smooth , but don't seem to take much extra power, if any. I have no experience with the ones like in choppin's Spartan, so am just going by what he and a few others have posted about the Parker unitized system.
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Ridin I would say the 16cc Parker that I'm running uses about the same power or maybe a tad less that the Deere pumps but the Parkers are quicker and more responsive
 
#24 ·
Gump_Runner said:
Separate Pumps & Wheel Motors have been proven over years of service. The integrated HG's were implemented to save money not for increased reliability etc. Integrated units are a service nightmare. Any problem-you pull the whole unit.
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True, they were implemented in part to save money, but that's not the entire reason, or even the main reason. They are more compact and take less room/space under and in and around the machine since there are no hoses running anywhere etc. There are FAR less potential leak points, and they do not contaminate the other side if one side goes bad/down. They have been around in GT's for decades now, and for at least a decade in commercial mowers. There's absolutely no advantage to separate pumps and motors these days, and there are definite disadvantages. Unitized are the way of the future and eventually all mowers will use them.
 
#28 ·
Gump_Runner said:
I own both integrated/non and the 5400's "feel" like they use more power. My "feelings" are not scientific thus I asked for documentation.
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Other than being easier to install during assembly and easier to replace if it goes bad I don't think there are any advantages drive wise. As long as the mighty Turf Tiger uses the individual setups I'm convinced they're still a pretty good system. I've read too many folks with the 5400's wishing they had the big block for more power..
 
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#30 ·
T Total Lawncare said:
Other than being easier to install during assembly and easier to replace if it goes bad I don't think there are any advantages drive wise. As long as the mighty Turf Tiger uses the individual setups I'm convinced they're still a pretty good system. I've read too many folks with the 5400's wishing they had the big block for more power..
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I don't feel like you will hear that from the people running the Parker 16cc or 12cc unitized system
 
#31 ·
When you pump fluid through hoses or pipes you have to deal with drag. Integrated transaxles don't have that load. They are more efficient.

The most common failure in a separate system is a blown seal or hose.

The most common failure in an integrated is a blown seal.

I think separate units will stick around just because it makes room for a bigger motor at the wheel. There is still no replacement for displacement.

I personally don't see the need to go 2mph faster in the parking lot because I'm sure as hell not going to mow faster, but someone will and they'll pay for more power.
 
#34 ·
Tunedis95 said:
I believe wheel motors are the way to go, that's one reason I chose the Turf Tiger over the other Scag models. Working on a drilling rig, we deal with hyd pumps, motors all the time. Everything is independent, pump goes out, we replace the pump. Motor goes out, we replace the motor. Although cheaper on a mower to manufacture an integrated system, repairing a single part is far easier than trying to figure out which component is faulty. Depending on the situation, the fluid system would have to be flushed and replaced with new oil to rid any shavings. Both options will have seals and such regardless, hoses are introduced by going with motors, but a hose is easy to replace. Just my opinion through.
Yep. If some ran a chain/sprocket driven mower you would hear terms like more responsive, more efficient, more reliable, more smooth etc...etc.. It's always some family member, "dealer" or anyone who confirms what they "heard". I don't know for a fact if one is better than the other but with documented facts I'm fine with confirming what has been proven.
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#35 ·
That Guy Gary said:
When you pump fluid through hoses or pipes you have to deal with drag. Integrated transaxles don't have that load. They are more efficient.

The most common failure in a separate system is a blown seal or hose.

The most common failure in an integrated is a blown seal.

I think separate units will stick around just because it makes room for a bigger motor at the wheel. There is still no replacement for displacement.

I personally don't see the need to go 2mph faster in the parking lot because I'm sure as hell not going to mow faster, but someone will and they'll pay for more power.
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Hardly any hose on my system to blow. My PZ mostly uses a stainless steel line.

Image
 
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#36 ·
I don't know if he was talking about the lines blowing or not, but I was not. I was talking about all the extra potential leak points where the lines connect to different places. That fact wouldn't keep me from buying a machine with separate pumps and motors by any means (like the TT II). It was just something I was pointing out as to why the manu's are moving away from them.
 
#37 ·
Ridin' Green said:
I don't know if he was talking about the lines blowing or not, but I was not. I was talking about all the extra potential leak points where the lines connect to different places. That fact wouldn't keep me from buying a machine with separate pumps and motors by any means (like the TT II). It was just something I was pointing out as to why the manu's are moving away from them.
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Yet again, "potential leak points" have nothing to do with manufactures switching from one system to another. More unsubstantiated "water cooler" talk by a bunch of old men.
 
#38 ·
Gump_Runner said:
Yet again, "potential leak points" have nothing to do with manufactures switching from one system to another. More unsubstantiated "water cooler" talk by a bunch of old men.
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Well, think what you wish. There's no need for the childish name calling though.

I know from talking to some of the factory reps a couple years back at a large open hose we went to that the leak point issue was one of the reasons they are moving to the integrated system along with less cost up front and easier to repair/replace. Plus, less design issues with where/having to route lines etc.

BTW, since you have all the answers bub, tell us why the separate system is so much better. You can't because it isn't. It's been around a long time and still works, and there's nothing wrong with them, but they aren't better. You want everyone else to post proof of their view, but you don't for yours. Kind of hypocritical.
 
#40 ·
That Guy Gary said:
Do you find any advantage to this setup over an integrated unit?
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In running one vs the other I'd say no. I just posted the pic because someone was going on about hoses blowing on the traditional. My unit has stainless lines not hoses. I've never owned an integrated machine only drove a couple different Cheetahs. Everything I've ever owned was the traditional setup. Like I've said, the integrated is probably easier to install or replace after failure as one unit. I read people saying they're more responsive and who knows about that. Half people can't stand control inputs being super sensitive as they say it's hard to keep a straight line. I guess it all comes down to what your used to on that and how you like them. I'm not pro or opposed to either setup and do not believe either system is superior to the other. They're just 2 different ways to skin the cat.
 
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Jfly37
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