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Skag cutting out on bumps

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swamp_stalker

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have a brand new Skag Patriot with the Kaw FX730V. I am a homeowner cutting about 4.5 acres. One area of my grass is very bumpy, and when going over bumps the engine repeatedly shuts down for a second then catches itself and keeps going. It also did it once when I quickly slowed down to take a turn. I immediately jumpered the safety switch on the seat thinking that was surely the issue. It wasn't. It happens when hot, and when you hit bumps. Doesn't matter if the PTO is engaged or not. Doesn't matter if it is half or full throttle. I jiggled all of the electrical connections and couldn't duplicate the problem, including the ignition switch harness, parking break connection and neutral switches.

I did check the oil and found the level half way between the marks, so I topped it off. Does this engine have a oil sensor that could have been getting tripped when going over bumps?

I fear that if I trailer this thing 40 miles to the dealer they wont be able to replicate the issue. I will probably video it first so I can show them what it is doing. But I wanted to run it past you guys on here to see if it is a problem somebody else has seen. When I called the dealer he had never run into this problem before.
 
#2 ·
My first thought was the seat interlock switch. Did you install a jumper wire in the seat switch plug? I assume you did, does the mower shut off when you remove the jumper? If it does shut off, are you able to replicate the engine stalling as before with the jumper firmly in place?
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Traveling Man said:
My first thought was the seat interlock switch. Did you install a jumper wire in the seat switch plug? I assume you did, does the mower shut off when you remove the jumper? If it does shut off, are you able to replicate the engine stalling as before with the jumper firmly in place?
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Yes, it is jumpered. You can get off, jump up and down, and lift the seat and drop it back in place with it running and engine never misses a beat. I pretty much ruled out the seat switch. That was my dealers immediate thought as well when I told him what was happening.

After lots of reading I am leaning towards it being a vapor lock caused either by my not tightening the gas cap completely (I didn't turn it till it clicked), or the factory fuel filter which seems to be problematic on these engines causing vapor lock. With all the rain we are getting this week I should be able to test it really well if it ever dries up.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I will have to take it in for service, but I can give them a good head start on figuring it out. If you go to crank the mower (cold or hot) and it cranks right away, I have no issues at all. If you have to turn on the engine for 3-4 seconds, or even sometimes pull the choke a little to get it cranked (cold or hot), then it almost kills every time you hit a bump. Pretty sure this thing has carb issues.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Posted some videos for my dealer to watch encase they can't duplicate the issue with my Scag. Going to keep the post updated. Never know when this might help somebody else having a similar issue.

Most noticable in 1st video at 0:42, 1:15, 1:20, 2:25, then almost dies on me at about 2:55.


Most noticable in 2nd video at 0:29, 1:14, 1:43, 2:14. Almost kills on me a few times.

 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
SS Lawn Care said:
My V-ride with the FX691V does that too over larger bumps. I think it is a carb issue, because it will stumble then puff a little black smoke. Maybe float bounce like mentioned above. It runs fine otherwise.
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Maybe, but unacceptable in my opinion. It will almost die on me sometimes, and these videos are with the PTO off. It is worse when engaged. My 10 year old Toro from Home Depot would cut over bumps without a hiccup. I would expect a $7000 Scag to do the same.

Did you ever take yours in to have the issue looked at?
 
#10 ·
No not yet, haven't had time. I just slow down a little more over rough areas. I have a V-ride 36'" with the FX600V, and it doesn't really seem to do it. I may have to inquire about it. I'll bet the dealer will say to just slow down over rough areas. That doesn't really help but maybe your video will persuade them more. I don't think it's a SCAG problem, but definitely a Kawasaki FX problem. I have a Kohler Command 25 on a Tiger Cub 61" and it doesn't suffer as bad like the Kawi, however, if you hit a big enough bump fast enough, it will hickup too. These engines would probably benefit from some better shock proof mounting. Also, what's your rear tire pressure? Seems like from the factory they fill them to 25 PSI. I can't remember but, I think they should be around 12-15 PSI. I haven't adjust my rears either, I will try that today and see how it does.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
SS Lawn Care said:
No not yet, haven't had time. I just slow down a little more over rough areas. I have a V-ride 36'" with the FX600V, and it doesn't really seem to do it. I may have to inquire about it. I'll bet the dealer will say to just slow down over rough areas. That doesn't really help but maybe your video will persuade them more. I don't think it's a SCAG problem, but definitely a Kawasaki FX problem. I have a Kohler Command 25 on a Tiger Cub 61" and it doesn't suffer as bad like the Kawi, however, if you hit a big enough bump fast enough, it will hickup too. These engines would probably benefit from some better shock proof mounting. Also, what's your rear tire pressure? Seems like from the factory they fill them to 25 PSI. I can't remember but, I think they should be around 12-15 PSI. I haven't adjust my rears either, I will try that today and see how it does.
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It will actually do it even if you go over bumps pretty slow. If you watch that 2nd video at around 0:28 I am barely moving when I hit the bump and it starts missing. I bought from a dealer with a good reputation. I am confident we will get it worked out. But telling me to go slower when I am already not going full speed will not be a fix in my book since I have almost 5 acres of uneven ground to cut.

I will definitely check that tire pressure though, so thanks for that advice. I will update the post on what my dealer finds. I will be bringing it in this Friday.
 
#12 ·
Well, one sure-fire way to figger out if ign. or fuel is to isolate the kill wire fer the coils. You can unplug the engine harness connection but ya gotta run a 12v. jumper to the fuel solenoid . Can jump across the unplugged connector, right ? I myself, remove the kill wire terminal from within the connector, then simply push it back in place when done testin. Make sure the batt. is fully charged as ya won't be charging it fer the short time yer bouncin' around, right?
Check yer wiring diagram fer the kill circuit, ya may be able to unplug the kill wire somewhere along the unit harness.

You should have the manuals/diagrams , right?
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
BigFish said:
Well, one sure-fire way to figger out if ign. or fuel is to isolate the kill wire fer the coils. You can unplug the engine harness connection but ya gotta run a 12v. jumper to the fuel solenoid . Can jump across the unplugged connector, right ? I myself, remove the kill wire terminal from within the connector, then simply push it back in place when done testin. Make sure the batt. is fully charged as ya won't be charging it fer the short time yer bouncin' around, right?
Check yer wiring diagram fer the kill circuit, ya may be able to unplug the kill wire somewhere along the unit harness.

You should have the manuals/diagrams , right?
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I do, but the reason I feel like it is probably a fuel issue is because like I said in my previous post, the missing almost always happens after the mower is hard to start. Sometimes it cranks with a touch of the key and no choke, and it runs great. Then other times you have to fully choke it and turn on it 2-3 seconds to get it cranked. When that is the case it starts missing on bumps.

I have already jumpered the seat safety and checked every connection I can find. Also put on a new fuel filter. I didn't want to go much further than that considering it is basically brand new. I would prefer to leave it to the dealer at this point.
 
#14 ·
You know, it may have something to do with the fuel shutoff solenoid. I went to the Kawasaki FX engine webpages, and read about the FX600 versus the FX691 and FX730's. The FX600 doesn't have a fuel shutoff solenoid, whereas the larger FX's do. Maybe that explains why the FX600 doesn't stumble or hickup over bigger bumps. I'm not sure, just trying to reason by putting 2 and 2 together. I am sure an experienced mechanic or tech could tell you more.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
No luck with the dealer figuring out anything. Said he used it and might have heard it miss once or twice but couldn't find anything wrong with the carb. So now when I get it back and it misses and almost kills on bumps I will have to get with Scag about what they will do. If I don't have luck there I will get rid of it while it has low hours and still basically new. Very disappointing to say the least.
 
#16 ·
Might want to check the linkage/spring to the choke, could be loose.
 
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Discussion starter · #17 ·
hal said:
Might want to check the linkage/spring to the choke, could be loose.
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I checked everything external on the carb myself. I am no small engine mechanic, but I do have an extensive background with engines (especially carb engines).

I think it could be a float that is sticky, or perhaps not adjusted properly. Or it could be a bad seal/o-ring somewhere in the carb. But I can't start tearing apart a brand new piece of equipment myself and risk giving Scag a reason not to warranty the problem. Based on my own personal experience, when you get a new engine with a little mystery issue like this it almost never gets resolved. If the manufacture doesn't step up right away, then you just got stuck with a problematic engine and it is best to wash your hands of it as quickly as possible before a small problem under warranty turns into a large problem later when the warranty is expired.
 
#18 ·
I had a fh680v that did the same thing you are describing. I just lived with it but it wasn't nearly as bad as what you have described.

My guess is there are others with this issue. Have you tried doing a search?
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
sjessen said:
I had a fh680v that did the same thing you are describing. I just lived with it but it wasn't nearly as bad as what you have described.

My guess is there are others with this issue. Have you tried doing a search?
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I have. Best thing I found was a long discussion about a Kohler engine with basically the exact same issue. Eventually, after lots of trips to the shop and calls to Kohler they put a new carb on the engine and it fixed the problem. But, that would mean more 70 mile round trips to drop this machine off, and going without a machine while they try and figure it all out. And from what I have read Kawasaki has a history of denying warranty claims. It just isn't a fight I want to take on right now, and if my dealer is saying he can't duplicate the problem then I am on my own to deal with the manufacturer.

If it does it again when I get it home tomorrow (and I am sure it will), I will use a better camera to document what is happening.
 
#20 ·
Then send a copy to kaw and keep bugging them to get it fixed!!
 
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