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John Deere 737 23H P, 54" deck runs rough after use for a while, other issues as well, HELP Please!

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737 runs bad under load
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9.5K views 39 replies 8 participants last post by  Schaeff58  
S
#1 ·
Hello, New to this forum, first post here. I have an old John Deere 737 with a 54" deck. I have had it since early 2000's (cant remember exact year). Its been a fine Machine!
Mower Info: MOD: TCO737A061178
Here is some back story:

SO this mower is for my home. Big yard about 3 acres. Love this mower cuts my mowing time way down from the slower John Deere tractor style mowers we had before. I replaced the real main seal, behind the pto clutch (it literally just fell out. ???). I think the front one is bad, have the seal but have not replaced that one yet. So this year at the first couple mows of the season the engine would stop, not completely just for a second, sorta sputter intermittently but never long enough to be able to figure out the issue. I replaced the PTO switch as once when it was sputtering I wiggled it and the mower 'caught' and acted right. Then it would not start at all.... So I pulled the grounds off the coils and it started ran well and I could mow again. I figured it was a safety switch, mower has many. I checked them, still not sure if I got the all or if any are bad, and I tested it wrong, found no bad switches. I have been running it w/o most of the safety switches in use. (Bad idea I know) . The brake one still seems to work wont crank it that's not up in place. So its was running fine for a while. But lately if you stopped,. shut it down (like to help your wife bring in the groceries) it starts and runs fine, sounds perfect, but as soon as you engage the PTO It pops and coughs and will try to rev up, but almost stalls out if you try to mow with it. Sometimes after a bit it will "catch" blades rev up and mows correctly, but may or may not run well for the rest of the job. Usually it wont. But I found yesterday if you let it cool down, it will run correctly for a while before acting badly again

So what have I done? New Blades and belts. The coil grounding wires are pulled, so it a safety switch is bad, its currently out of the equation. Also Cleaned out the air filter, blew it all out (was not bad at all) I have new plugs, fuel filter, coming today or tomorrow. I will ck the compression at that time. the PTO belt being shredded made me think the spindles or pulley bearings could be bad.... I am going to ck them today. I cannot tell if its something in the deck or belt pullies to the deck that are bad, binding etc and thats bogging the motor down or.... if its the engine itself that is reacting to heat, aka bad coils etc.... I dont want to just throw parts at it... but I am open to things to look for etc.

THANKS in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!

Schaeff58
 
H
#2 ·
Coils may be going south.....or loose wire (have fun)
 
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S
#7 ·
Dandan, no have not cleaned the fuel system.... I have fuel filters coming... are you suggesting removing the tank et al? I guess it could be the fuel pump as well? I will go deeper into the fuel system if the coils, filter and plugs dont bring me some improvement. Thanks for the input!
 
K
#8 ·
When you say start fine, then sputters and carries on intermittently with the PTO engaged....and sometimes it runs fine w/pto.....Could be coils (maybe)? But as a prior electrician, this could also be a short in the ground/safety system especially on an aging mower. Voltage regulators act weird sometimes when starting to go bad too, so I wouldn't rule that out either.

The fact that it runs fine sometimes - doesn't sound like a fuel clog. It sounds like a chaffed wire/switch failing somewhere. Check and clean your voltage regulator connector(s). I've seen them get ****ty ****ty and corroded after years of use. I maintained an old Ferris where all the connectors/plugs were **** from years of moisture and dirt (this is why I fill my plugs with dielectric grease to keep clean and sealed on my newer scag).

  • Inspect wiring/switches(which you did or bypassed)/grounds
  • Replace coils
  • new fuel filter(s)

In this order is what I would start with.
 
S
#9 ·
KVB, thanks for chiming in!
I got my fuel filters yesterday late. plugs too. I just ordered coils, so I can inspect the wiring. I did that once it all seemed fine. The only time the engine does anything other than run perfect, is when the pto is engaged. I have replaced that item twice. The connectors were melted, that was one problem but I think I hard wired them the last time. Will ck them again. I did not get to look at it at all yesterday, but should get some time today. At one point I thought it was something with the hydraulics, but could never duplicate any control movement that caused it to be better or worse.

I do value your thoughts, and I will investigate further. I hope to do the plugs, a compression test, and fuel filter today. I will look at the wiring as well. Oh and Ill ck the pullies/spindles too.
Sorry doing it outside the order you suggested, but I dont have the coils yet....

Thanks!
 
S
#10 ·
Good Morning!
So... I did inspect the wiring again, all seemed well... did not mess with the switches at all, that will come at a later date. I replaced the fuel filter. It was not bad, but was old. I did a compression test, and replaced the plugs. As you are facing forward from the back of the mower, right cylinder had 123psi, and the left had 121psi. I thought that was pretty good for a mower that has 4768 hrs on it! The plugs were not fouled, they were black, I guess from carbon build up from the sputtering and poor running condition I have been experiencing?

I also inspected the pulleys. All of them move/turned freely. One seemed to have a bent spindle, discharge side pulley. It is a double stacked pully from when we had a bagger attachment. That thing was a POS and we got rid of it. Pulley remains, not sure why. To be honest, not sure if it was a bent pulley, or a bent spindle. Regardless it did not seem like it had bad bearings or wobble etc. I think I will replace the other two, one I already did last season.

The PTO: SO while I had the belt off I cked the PTO. Honestly, Not really sure what I was looking for. It clicked on when I activated it, the center clutch part moved freely I thought, what else am I supposed to be looking for?

Coils coming Thursday, wont get them on until Friday at earliest, may even be Saturday. Been raining its a** off, and I ll need to mow any day that I can now. So I may get to test what I did so far,(w/o the new coils) to see if it was a fix or not....Ill keep ya posted.
 
K
#12 ·
Under load and vibrations, anything is possible. I rebuilt a ferris last year and the PTO was cutting in and out and finally wouldn't engage at all....my connectors were severely dirty and corroded and one was half melted (my dad wasn't one for quality maintenance). After replacing a switch, finding a chaffed wire, and rebuilding a connector, new stator harness...I thought for sure I fixed it - nope. Replaced the regulator, and cut the crappy melted connector out and hard wired...problem solved.

These intermittent problems are hard to diagnose and you may have to toss some parts at it (as you are). Get a schematic if you don't already have one and study it for a little while. Start from from your PTO engage switch and see how it intersects with your engine. Hopefully your coils are the bad actor though.

Share a video if you have time?
 
S
#13 ·
WOW KVB, never would have thought that! And yes been looking for the schematic having a hard time finding one.. found a manual

John Deere Mid-Mount Z-Trak 737 757 Mower Service Repair Manual (TM2003)

John Deere Mid-Mount Z-Trak 737 757 Mower Service Repair Manual (TM2003) - SERVICE REPAIR MANUAL

If you own a John Deere Mid-Mount Z-Trak 737 757 Mower, this is a GREAT MANUAL TO HAVE. This Service Repair Manual has easy-to-read text sections with top quality diagrams and instructions, lots of photographs, illustrations etc. Service Repair Manual Covers: Introduction Safety Specifications...
www.aservicemanualpdf.com www.aservicemanualpdf.com

$15. I am not sure if there is a wiring diagram in it or not, sent message to seller before I buy. I am sure I can use it for other problems.... or does anyone else have a better suggestions?

You are so right about intermittent problems. The bane of my existence!
Video, Ok good idea, I will see if I can do that the next time the mower acts up.

THX
 
K
#14 ·
Schaeff58 said:
WOW KVB, never would have thought that! And yes been looking for the schematic having a hard time finding one.. found a manual

John Deere Mid-Mount Z-Trak 737 757 Mower Service Repair Manual (TM2003)

John Deere Mid-Mount Z-Trak 737 757 Mower Service Repair Manual (TM2003) - SERVICE REPAIR MANUAL

If you own a John Deere Mid-Mount Z-Trak 737 757 Mower, this is a GREAT MANUAL TO HAVE. This Service Repair Manual has easy-to-read text sections with top quality diagrams and instructions, lots of photographs, illustrations etc. Service Repair Manual Covers: Introduction Safety Specifications...
www.aservicemanualpdf.com www.aservicemanualpdf.com

$15. I am not sure if there is a wiring diagram in it or not, sent message to seller before I buy. I am sure I can use it for other problems.... or does anyone else have a better suggestions?

You are so right about intermittent problems. The bane of my existence!
Video, Ok good idea, I will see if I can do that the next time the mower acts up.

THX
Click to expand...
If you plan on keeping this mower and doing your own Mx, having the schematic is valuable and I'd pay whatever for it. Just make sure its correct for your motor/application.

This said, if you can download (free) other model/years similar, it may getcha close and save a few bucks.

Good luck! Hope the coils fix!
 
S
#15 ·
@KVB
Thanks, I hope the coils fix this issue as well. And Yes, had the mower since it was new so plan to keep it, it still has a lot of years on it I think.... just replaced the third set of front tires on it... next time I getting the ones that dont go flat.... .... for me it has been true, nothing runs like a deere! The guy across the street had not been in his house for than 10 years. We have been at this property for about 30 and he has had mow mowers than I can count.... we have had ONE! LOL

I bought the manual, looks like its just what I needed... So thanks for that suggestion... I will peruse it later.

Thanks again
 
S
#16 ·
Ok.... just got off the mower. adult beverage in hand..... Did not have a problem, not a hiccup, cough, spit, pop NOTHING! The mower preformed flawlessly! Now do I think its fixed? To be honest, I doubt it.

The fuel filter was old, many seasons old.... the plugs older.... those are really the only two things I did that could have really made that kind of difference.... However.... I did go over the wiring. I pulled the wires I could get to off the voltage regulator. No glaring issues, connectors were tight, no corrosion I could see, It all looked ok.... I did mess with the PTO yesterday but did not take it off or remove my hard wired connections to the PTO, all shrink tubed up, all looked good. But we all know when you start messing with the wiring sometimes you may fix what was wrong and not know it.... So maybe that could have been it too.

Coils just arrived.... So do I keep using it like it is, save the coils for a rainy day? I think what must have really fixed it was the fact that I got the manual now.... never fails right? LOL I am sure I will need that at some point.

So at least today I mowed w/o any consternations, and I am happy of that... Any suggestions?

I will mention as a side note that the mower really ran well, I mean it always has, but it just seemed smoother, etc... maybe it was in my head, but I thought it sounded better right off the bat. Started better, idled better, and when I engaged the PTO that was better too. When I mowed, I ran it regular, just like always. Grass was think, it did bog down like it would sometimes, but just kept running great! I stopped it a couple times about half way through, just to see if it would act up, but no problems at all. Hope I fixed it, but I am not sure.. Thoughts?
.
Thanks

Schaeff58
 
H
#17 ·
Sounds like a winner, semi plugged filter and new plugs would definitely turn it around....keep the coils....
 
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K
#19 ·
You scared the problem away!!!!!! OR your plugs/filter swap fixed. OR you moved a wire to make a good connection. Swap the coils or not, but if it comes back, obviously swap them.

After that, get that schematic out and start hunting. Personally, I'd swap them now just to keep ruling stuff out. But hey, one step at a time.....run it.
 
S
#20 ·
Yes those are both great ideas...It would be good to know its not the coils if/when it happens again... I have been looking at the schematics and the location of the safety switches. I will probably go after them next and in the process get to the coils.

So on the safety switches.... if I pull the connectors off all of then, jump them out, aka make it seem like they are working, and replace the coil ground wires, should that eliminate the no start from a bad switch? But if its a wire that is chafed or whatever, I would still get a no start correct? And I could look harder for the wire.....? Or am I not looking at this the right way.

The manual locates all those switches in the harness that is a huge help, wire colors too. It was a while ago, but I think I tested all the switches and thought I got them all.... It seems they all worked...I just have to start over on the switches.

Thoughts/suggestions?

THX
 
K
#21 ·
"So on the safety switches.... if I pull the connectors off all of then, jump them out, aka make it seem like they are working, and replace the coil ground wires, should that eliminate the no start from a bad switch?" ---Yes

"But if its a wire that is chafed or whatever, I would still get a no start correct?" ---Yes

"And I could look harder for the wire.....?" ---Yes (and look for relays in the circuit)

Bluntly, it's mostly on ya now......mow a few times, see what happens....eliminate a potential, then mow a few times, see what happens....all these stealerships will go through the same process....Save yourself the time, tow there and back(fuel) for the same procedure they will go through. It's your time or money : )
 
S
#22 ·
@KVB Thanks for the confirmation! And yes, the "stealerships" are not the not my first choice. You said it correctly, its on me now. LOL..... The relays... hmmm that is a good point... Ill look at them tool

Thanks to all for your help. IF/when I solve this, I will be sure to report back what I found..

Schaeff58
 
S
#23 · (Edited)
Hello, I am back again to report: Mower is still running fine and mows great.... to a point... What I mean by that is I just replaced both the belts.... deck and drive/PTO belt. This was just the second time I used it with the new belts. Come to think of it, the other PTO belt (several seasons old) broke in amidst all the engine running problems. I did not think anything of that but now it seems relevant that that happened... SO new belts, mowed, all was right with the world. I was smelling the belt... if that makes any sense.... I thought it was just the belts but I now dont think that was correct. That was last week.... So I mowed for about 20 mins, and the new PTO belt broke Thursday. I had another new belt and after loosening the belt tension by moving the stationary idler pulley (the one on the right, sitting in the seat of mower) it seemed to ok. I finished the yard. I did not smell belt as much but still some.... Sprayed some wd40 on the belt, at the pto and man all that was hot. But this mower has always ran hot like that I think.... I cked the bearing of idler pulleys they seemed ok... the right one seemed to move a little, but no noise from any of them I can hear.... I have replaced them once both sides some time ago.. Thoughts? Bugs me you cant swap out the bearings. and you have to change the whole pulley.... Or do pulleys wear out as well? I know they wear out on big motors that run for hours/days at at a time.... Thinking about just replacing the pulleys... Anything else to ck? Thoughts?

Thanks..
 
J
#24 ·
You need to remove the deck belt ( take a picture of belt routing if you are not sure how to reinstall) and inspect each spindle, pulley and tensioner for tight bearings, wobble and possible debris causing problems. All pulleys should be on the same plane ( use a long straight edge to check this) as any misalignment of the pulleys will wear out the belt prematurely. If you can safely get under the deck, try shaking/ wobbling each blade to check for a loose bearing then see if there is any resistance when spinning each blade. Is it possible that a piece of wire or rope is wrapped around a spindle shaft? When you replaced the belt, was is routed correctly? Did the tension feel correct?
Good luck and let us know what you find.
 
S
#25 ·
@JoeRagMan
Hey, thanks so much for your comment! Yes, have gone over the deck its all good... it seemed.... It would be prudent to ck it all again.... no issue with blades... PTO belt is what is shredding, Blades replaced with brand new ones, this was the 4th mow with the new blades. Ill have a look for wire/rope etc.... just to be sure...

Ill ck and get back

Thanks!
 
S
#27 ·
Hey Prestigious1, thanks for the comment. I am using a Sten belt, and have used them for years..... this was the first time it broke so quickly. Amazon.com : 8TEN PTO Clutch Belt for John Deere 737 757 Ztrak Mowers Serial Numbers 030001 and Higher TCU16907 : Patio, Lawn & Garden
The OEM belts are good but they are expensive and I could not find them locally.... I guess I am whining.... I did not know there was an issue with non oem belts.... thanks for the info!....I will consider that change if the problem persists....

BTW.... I just finished mowing, no running issues or belt issues, burning smell etc... maybe it was too tight, but thats how it was for years... so I am not sure how it got too tight????
Yard looks great, but man oh man is it hot.... I am done for the day! Its Milla time! (Hear Bill Murray saying that from Ghost Busters lol)

Greg
 
S
#29 ·
Well Maybe thats the issue? We had a JD dealer locally for many years. But they were always out of belts etc... And if you ordered one, you got charged frieght... WTF... maybe that is normal, but I am not paying freight (at least its not labeled that) for items at Lowes or a grocery store... so I found these Sten belts, and they seemed to work well until this last one... So maybe Ill buy a JD OEM belt the next time I break one and see how that one lasts.... I just never thought that mattered....
 
S
#30 ·
Ok, I am back..... shredded another belt! :mad: Not sure exactly why. So I want to order an OEM one... but there seems to be a deference in length from one manufacturer to another... JD seems to be 116" others are 115.25" and I think I saw 115.5 too.... So does anyone know what the actual true length should be? Also, could it be the rear pullies? I have replaced them once... they seem to run true... but I can smell the belt burning at times.... Not sure.... Hate to keep throwing parts at this... epically if its the expensive JD belt.... Could it be the tensioning pully and spring.... ? I think I got 5 or 6 cuts out of the last belt.... one with the one before that... bad couple belts? (they were not JD belts)

thx
 
S
#32 ·
Hey JoeRagMan:
Thank you for your comment. not a bad idea really, I will consider that, once the mowing is done....

This last belt did not really shred completely. It was still on the drive pulley on the deck, off the two pulleys in the back, and it was doubled over on itself behind the pto pulley.... not wrapped around but onto itself and tight... I could not figure out how it was so tight as the distance it travels was much longer than how it was when off the pulley's.... it was ruined for sure. I had another one and put it all back together to finish the yard... ordered a JD OEM belt... thus my original question about the correct length of the belt.... seems to vary up to 3/4 of an inch or so... Still would like to know if anyone knows for sure.... I know what I see being offered in different belts...

Thanks
 
J
#33 ·
Someone needs to inspect all sheaves, idlers, bearing operation along with the clutch for debris, misalignment, freedom of movement. Problem could be a weak spring on the tensioner, a tight pivot point on the tensioner arm, a bad bearing inside of one of the blade spindles. If you can do so safely, have someone else start and engage the mower deck while parked and you look at the belt in question from a safe distance to see if there is something unusual going on. Safety glasses and look from a safe distance! Wish we were neighbor! I love these kind of problems! Good luck.
 
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