Power Difference Between Kohler Command Pro 200, 224, And Briggs 223

Courage · Feb 20, 2023

Hey guys, hopefully I'm not annoying y'all with my questions! I need to get a backup to my Timemaster that has the bigger Briggs.
A ~30lb weight difference (between the Exmark/Toro commercial 30"s and my Timemaster) doesn't seem like it would be very noticeable since it's self propelled. When turning it, you only lift the front up, so maybe an extra ~15lbs down pressure needed?
All that said to explain that I'm contemplating getting a commercial Toro or Exmark 30" with one of the Kohler engines instead of another Timemaster.
Some of my lawns bog down my Timemaster quite a bit in the spring. How is the power difference between the 3 motors on the table?
Any other thoughts relative to the topic greatly appreciated!
Courage

Mow_Ranger_44 · Feb 20, 2023

@Hurryupelectric

Hurryupelectric · Feb 21, 2023

I hated maneuvering my Turfmaster for the short time I ran it. The cv224 is a cv200 with a little more stroke (and thus torque) and I did like the growl as the blades spun up. I was never really happy with the power when actually cutting grass and trying to cut at a productive pace. It’s been a while but I feel like while the cv224 had a slight edge in peak power, the briggs 223 had a more linear power curve which is what we need when blasting through growth. As soon as the rpm slows a couple hundred rpms I think the briggs might be better.

I think for a solo operation a second timemaster would be the better choice. I borrowed (I mean bought) timemaster parts and put them on my Turfmaster actually. I can’t remember all the little mods I did trying to make the 30” work for me but I know I swapped the metal chute for the plastic one to open and close while mowing. Fold up storage with the handle bars would be very nice for a backup mower. I added pins and whatnot to make my Turfmasters bars fold backwards.

God, seems like yesterday…

Courage · Feb 21, 2023

Thanks for responding! Very interesting! I was expecting both Kohlers to be more powerful than the Briggs. Anybody else have experience with these engines?

Turf Tracer · Feb 21, 2023

Have the 224 on a couple 21” push and can’t bog it to die like the Kaw 180’s

Hurryupelectric · Feb 21, 2023

I’m planning on yanking the cv224 off my Turfmaster before listing it this spring just incase I ever get a sr4. I still have the fj180 that came on it and figure I should probably put it back on if I can ever ditch the thing lol.

Courage · Feb 23, 2023

Thanks @Hurryupelectric for sharing your experience! Do you have much experience with Timemasters? Maybe I got a dud lol, but when I went back and thought about it, I had quite a few problems with mine. If it's the best 30" with a rear bagger available, then it's still worth the headaches over a 21" for my properties. Within the first week of it being brand new, the rear height adjustment would drop if I went over a bump. A bungi chord fixed that problem, but it looks pretty hokey. At the end of one season, the front height adjustment tab is pretty much worn through. The kill switch wires managed to get yanked out, which takes away from the premium lawn service vibe when a customer comes out to talk to you and you have to fiddle with a few wires to shut off your machine. Also, several small, but irritating pull chord assembly problems. Not a fault of its own as it works awesome on flat ground, but for steep hills Personnal Pace isn't my favorite I dont think. The previous summer working for my dad I ran a Toro Proline 21" that was very used, but hardly ever had problems. I've heard that the Exmark transmissions are tougher. Do they just last longer, or do they pull harder?

Hurryupelectric · Feb 23, 2023

There’s a couple of members that swear by their Timemasters, and a couple of others who just swear at them. I don’t have actual experience with the Timemaster in particular. I do know that both those that like em, and those that don’t tend to agree that they are high maintenance. Your pullies will be wearing soon and when they do, replace with the commercial ones. The cables don’t seem to hold up well and there’s other little things that will be annoying. Read the various threads and you’ll be wise to always have the parts that members say break on hand, always.

If the Turfmaster worked for my business I’d have very likely already found a timemaster and outfitted it as commercially as possible. I made those 30’s my mission, I’ve been over the parts diagrams a billion times. The weight difference would be all the reason I’d need to do that. That all being said, I don’t believe there’s a better bagging wide deck push out there. I personally prefer to bag with my Honda then to fight my Turfmaster around. I only bag on very thick leaf conditions, and even then I only bag as little as necessary and run a bigger mower to mulch what’s mulch-able.

We all have different business models and paths to achieve our goals but perhaps you will set your sights on a more productive mower as time goes on. I remember very well when I bought a John Deere stander after using the Turfmaster and the benefit of having actual useful power on tap is monumental. I absolutely love my Snapper/Ferris 32” walks, but even with twice the engine (390cc) I still have times where I’m wanting more umpth.

When I started my business four years ago I hadn’t even run a string trimmer before. I used my girlfriends moms Lawnboy 21 and worked up to a Honda hrx217, which blew my mind with how much faster I was with more power. I’ll save you the rest of my life story but if you’re not accustomed to real commercial mowers, like I wasn’t, it’s something to possibly consider.

Get that safety fixed, today, you need your equipment to stop.

Hurryupelectric · Feb 23, 2023

Courage said:
I've heard that the Exmark transmissions are tougher. Do they just last longer, or do they pull harder?

From what I’ve gathered, the HDX transmissions don’t have a differential and while they will definitely get the mower up a hill they are somewhat (more) difficult to turn. If you do continue buying and running the 30’s this is something you really should learn about. I would rather have easier turning but we don’t have hills here. Maybe they do have a differential that’s just not as easy to rotate but id make sure you pay attention to how the transmission acts before you buy something.

Courage · Feb 24, 2023

Thanks for responding! Really appreciate it!

I should clarify, the blades and self propelled both stop; the moter just sometimes doesn't want to turn off.

A little confused about the differentials/transmissions. Are they set up significantly different between the 3 Toro/Exmark 30" mowers?

I'm trying to cut down on the strain of having to push a mower up my hills, so that's why I'm considering a commercial version... To be used specifically for those properties unless i had a break down.

I heard somewhere that the Exmark 30 has a stronger transmission, but I haven't been able to find any hard facts.

Thanks again!

Courage

Hurryupelectric · Feb 24, 2023

I’m a little rusty on all the 30” specs and factoids, it’s been two years since I’ve really been wrenching the mine. I just know for sure that the transmission variations are something to make yourself in the know about. Have you searched all the threads on here? I’m certain that I had a couple technically involved threads on my Turfmaster right about two years ago. I changed the transmission and I’m pretty sure I had a thread on the whole thing.

I looked two up that I suspect has some technical discussion while the stuff was fresh on my mind and my hands were still dirty from working on it. Hopefully something in these helps.

Should I replace Toro Turfmaster transmission

The Turfmaster is officially productive

I’ve been struggling with my Turfmaster for quite a while as some of y’all know. I put a lot of time and money trying to make it an awesome mower. Yesterday and today I swapped out the original Turfmaster transmission pulley for the timemaster pulley. This took some engenuity and a good amount...

www.lawnsite.com

Courage · Feb 24, 2023

Thanks for the links, just went and reread them. Guess I've just got a lot of researching to do to see it its worth it.
Courage

Hurryupelectric · Feb 24, 2023

I feel like I go from super stoked to frustrated in one or both of those threads. Don’t let it sway you too much if it’s working good enough for you. I’m cutting southern grass which gets cut a little lower than other grasses. I remember my biggest problem was clogging and tossing clumps of grass in wet conditions. I’m pretty busy and I couldn’t have a bottleneck like that in our rainy season. Cheers.

Courage · Feb 24, 2023

Hurryupelectric said:
I feel like I go from super stoked to frustrated in one or both of those threads. Don’t let it sway you too much if it’s working good enough for you. I’m cutting southern grass which gets cut a little lower than other grasses. I remember my biggest problem was clogging and tossing clumps of grass in wet conditions. I’m pretty busy and I couldn’t have a bottleneck like that in our rainy season. Cheers.

It was definitely an interesting and amusing thread to read lol. I feel the same about my Timemaster; ¾ of the time I feel I couldn't live without it, ¼ of the time I feel like I need something else. I'm willing to buy "something else" if it will fix the problem, but I don't want to spend the cash if it won't... I think it was you that recently posted somewhere about trying to veiw money as a tool that you can use to make your life easier, instead of something to be collected (I'm sure this is a badly inaccurate paraphrase🤣). Anyway, I'm trying to start looking at it that way too, as it was really tempting to not spend any money on newer equipment "since I made it through last year just fine."
I'm sure that the different heights we cut our grass at could greatly affect which mowers work for us and which don't. My Timemaster dislikes cutting below 2¾", but just won't cut below 2¼". I don't know how you guys cut your grass so short!
Courage

Hurryupelectric · Feb 25, 2023

It was me that just said I’m trying to view money as a tool, to help remove emotion from financial decisions. My business generates revenue and I take my pay from that reservoir. I can now look at the “lawn mowing entity” more from the outside and not as “I gots a bunch of money”. It’s operating capital and I enjoy looking at it as knobs to turn and levers to pull.

I’m not sure where the other members are, plenty of us have experience with the 30’s. Maybe it’s just not quite the season yet for most and people are still as far from anything business related as possible. I hope you get more input from different perspectives on this.

I’m sorry, I’ve been whisked away in some runaway threads this week and didn’t remember if you have a good 21”? My big mower is a 48” but I couldn’t operate without my 32”, so I got a backup. My 32’s can run my whole business but the 48” cannot. The 30’s will break and leave you repairing while the grass grows and clients become annoyed. A good 21” is pretty solid as far as what will actually break under normal circumstances. Again, I don’t quite remember what other, if any, mowers you have. I do know my Honda hrx217 was often nearly as fast as the Turfmaster and easier to operate, while never breaking for silly reasons. Don’t mean to be redundant If it just happened.

Courage · Feb 26, 2023

Nope, my other mowers haven't been talked about really. I have an older, but mint condition Toro Proline 21" with the 3 speed transmission. After I got my Timemaster last summer though, I think I only used the 21" once.
I ran across 2 older Toro Turfmasters for $400 together. I'm contemplating picking them up and putting the new Exmark transmission and Kohler 224 on one and selling the other. Maybe new spindles as well. I don't know what year they are, and I'm not sure if the new heavy duty transmission will just be an easy replacement...
Think it's a good idea?
Thanks!
Courage

Hurryupelectric · Feb 26, 2023

Have you gotten into the parts diagrams for the various 30’s? I spent a lot of time looking at them closely and also the parts in question. I’m thinking there’s something different about the HDX transmission but I feel like all the decks are basically the same. You need to spend some time looking at all those diagrams and make the best choice you can. I unfortunately don’t have time to dig around for those diagrams myself, I’d have loved to in January. If you are looking at say, the deck/chassis diagrams for the HDX model and whatever model you’re modifying and want my opinion, feel free to post those pictures and I’ll give my take on it. Find the exact replacement transmission and look at it and compare to the hdx, if you aren’t already. Again I can look if you post photos.

Courage · Feb 26, 2023

I should pull up the parts diagram to verify (if I do, I'll post it up), but I did run across some info that supposedly the HDX model does have a modified deck to make room for the almost 2x as big transmission. So, I think I'm just going to look for a HDX model. From my research it seems like the HDX is much harder to turn, with would explain why so many guys hate them, but supposedly they can actually pull a hill😁
Courage

Courage · Feb 26, 2023

Here's what I found... I don't think it would work, but curious to hear what you think.

Hurryupelectric · Feb 26, 2023

Ahh, brings back memories. I remember looking at those pictures a million times. I remember that extra pulley on the hdx transmission. If you look at bracket #5 they look shaped different which would concern me about belt clearance between the two. To try to install that hdx on a basic 30 I’d be careful about belt size differences and proper spring tension, proper belt alignment will the pullies ext. I’m thinking these are some of the reasons I decided against trying to force a hdx transmission on my old turfmaster.

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