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0-46-0 triple superphosphate

Discussion in 'Homeowner Assistance Forum' started by nate1422, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. nate1422

    nate1422 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    Last fall I had a soil test performed prior to installing my lawn (new construction). I needed 50 lbs/1000 lime and 0-46-0 at 9 lbs/1000 which I tilled into the soil and then put down 10-6-4 at 10 lbs/1000 when I seeded the KB-rye-red fescue seed. Some sections of the lawn are still really thin so I am going to aerate and overseed again this fall. I just used a generic soil test to test the soil and even though I followed the recommendations last year, the soil looks to be as deficient in phosphorus as last year and and the pH looks to still be at about 6. My question is, could I use the recommendations from last years soil test this year using the 0-46-0 triple superphosphate on my existing turf without killing it. I heard that the 0-46-0 can kill existing turf. My other thought is to use Lesco starter fert with 50% slow release at a double rate to get 1.5 lbs of N/1000 and 2 lbs. P/1000 when I overseed and put down lime and then follow-that up later in fall with the labeled rate of starter fert.

    Any thoughts? Should I get another soil test?
  2. dcgreenspro

    dcgreenspro LawnSite Senior Member
    from PA
    Messages: 688

    I have never added that much to help soil chemistry brfore actual seeding and growth took place. You might have been better off breaking all of that stuff down over a period of two years and cultivating it into the soil every spring and fall when you aerify. Also, take the soil test and send it to a lab for analysis, that way you will definetly know where you stand.
  3. nate1422

    nate1422 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    Thanks for the feedback. I believe I will go the route of a soil test and then space out the amending over the next year or two.
  4. hmartin

    hmartin LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 590

    Get a new soil sample and send it to a good lab. Take 10 or 15 small amounts from 6 inches deep and mix them in a bucket. Do not touch the soil with your hands or contaminate it any other way.

    Post the results and you will get great advise.

    0-46-0 will not kill your lawn unless it was extreeeemly over applied.

    VWBOBD LawnSite Member
    Messages: 223

    I belive your extension office sends the test to Penn State, good turfgras program, good lab.
  6. muddstopper

    muddstopper LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,341

    Without looking at your soil test, I will say this. Back in the 1950's a few test where done compareing rock phosphate, Super Phosphate, Tripple super phosphate, Diammonium Phosphate, and Monoammonium Phosphate, to see just how long they would stay available to plants before becoming boundup in the soil into an unusable form. I am not going into the whole published papers, but to make a long story short, Under worst growing conditions, Rock P , Super P, Tripple super P, could be taken up by plants for a period of about 4 weeks, and 8 weeks under the best conditions, Diammonium P and Monoammonium P would stay available for up to a year. In low Ph soils, 5.5ph and less, the P would be adsorbed by Alummium and Iron and in high ph soils, the P would be adsorbed by calcium and form tricalcium Phosphate, the mineral it was originally mined from. When you do get your new soil test back, reconsider your P sources if you wish to have the P available to your plants for a longer period of time. Also, it has been debated, and excepted as a fact by some, that applications of P less than 250lbs per acre have never show to build P levels in the soil. I think this has more to do with the type of test used to determine the P levels in the first place. There are several extraction acids used for determining P levels. Each extracten will give a different reading of actual P levels. Lenght of time the material is soaked in the extracten will also give a different reading. Soil testing companies base their recommendations according to the methods they use to test the soil. So two different labs can show two completely different results and give different recommendations as well. I am not saying one is right or wrong, but once you choose a testing company, stay with them unless it becomes obvious that they are not doing something right. Switching testing companies will have you trying to build soil fertility on two different soil models and that just wont work.
  7. oOTurfmanoO

    oOTurfmanoO LawnSite Member
    Messages: 245

    The Best,

    Thank You!
  8. nate1422

    nate1422 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    The testing lab was Penn State. Last years test results: the soil pH was 6.1 so the recommendation was 50 lbs/lime/1000 and the P content recommendation was 5 lbs of P. I was good in Potash. Based on what everyone is saying, I am convinced the soil and the fact that I used the farm-grade 0-46-0 is why I am still deficient in P.

    The lawn was originally seeded in July and baked in Aug and Sept. I rented a harleyrake and ripped everything up and added the 0-46-0 and lime at that point, tilling it in to about 2-3 inches but by the time the lime upped the pH, the 0-46-0 was already inactive. The grass came in well in some areas but thin in others(probably due to the mix of soil). The soil quality is poor, the builder moved piles of soil to other piles of soil so there really is no good topsoil. My budget is about $400 this fall so aerating, seeding, liming, and fertilizing is what I can afford for now. I plan to do a full program next year to stay on top of weeds. Hopefully next fall, I can topdress with some compost or even better, add a couple inches of good topsoil. I have a 1 acre lot so it gets expensive quick.
  9. nate1422

    nate1422 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    Great blog Dr. Green. There is a dealer for Solu-Cal in Jersey which is kinda close but what does that product typically run in $$? Also, I would not think of tilling up the yard at this point, just patching in with topsoil here and there. I should not have used the harleyrake last year, I should have just aerated the heck out of the lawn and seeded. I am going to aerate like crazy this fall when I overseed to try to aid in decreasing the compaction.
  10. muddstopper

    muddstopper LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,341

    I have not seen or used solu-cal lime, but have used other forms of liquid lime products. The liquid lime products are nothing more than regular lime that has been ground down in size to sift thru a 300 mesh screen. what this means is that the lime products will react faster with the soil to raise ph levels. This ph neutralizing action is very short lived simply because of the amount of actual lime being applied to the soil. I cant say about solu cal lime but liquid lime is usually sold in 2 gal jugs and contains approx 11 lbs of actual lime product, the rest is water and clay that is used as a suspension agent to keep the lime from setteling out of the water. The prices usually run around $25+/- a jug. Not exactly the best bang for the buck. In most cases, where the goal is to raise calcium levels in the soil, regular bagged lime will do the job for way less in price of the liquid lime products. You can buy about 300lbs of bagged lime for the cost of the 11lbs of lime in the liquid lime products. Bagged lime is also finely ground with most passing thru a 100 mesh screen. The advantage of the smaller grind is simply that the smaller granuals can contact more soil surfaces using less amounts of the product, and translocate faster thru the soil, but because of the small amount of the product that is used, and the price of such products, It usually just doesnt make agronomical or economical sense to use the liquid lime products. If you wish to compare the Calcium Carbonate Equivelent of the two products, just check the lables, the lables dont lie and you can see exactly what you are getting for your money.

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