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27 kawi or 35 vanguard

5K views 21 replies 8 participants last post by  mag360 
#1 ·
I'm buying a turf tiger and my dealer has 2 left over models from last year. Both at the same price($10000, for those who would like to know) One is a 27 kawisaki liquid cooled with the velocity deck. And the other is a 35 vanguard liquid cooled with the advantage deck. If it wasn't for the decks I would get the vanguard hands down. Should I get the better deck or the higher horse engine??? Which would you get and why?
 
#6 ·
The 35 Briggs does come with the liquid cooled option. The Briggs model weighs 1445 pounds. The 27 liquid kaw. model weighs 1350. The 27 kawasaki model should be the newer model with the velocity plus deck. The advantage would be an older model. Get the dealer to run the serial numbers and tell you what year the model is. I have compared the 29 dfi to the Briggs and with the fuel consumption I will be purchasing the 29 dfi. I hade the 23 liquid cooled kawasaki an a 52" Turf Tiger with the advantage deck. It had plenty of power. The 23, 27 and 29 are the same block just the fuel systems are different. They both have the same ccs. Also look at the velocity deck and see if it comes wit the "wear pad" on the side of the deck. Scag also started putting the flat free tires on their mowers when they went to the velocity deck. See if they both have this option. Another thing to look for is the adjustable handles. These have been also added. Do they both have the suspension seat? Foldable ROPs? The Briggs is going to have more power hands down. But its also going to use about 1/3 more fuel. I have talked to a few peolple that own the Briggs and my dealer and the only complaint is the fuel consumption. U S Lawns run the Liquid Briggs around here and have great service out of them. The kawasaki is a proven engine. There are alot out there with a bunch of hours on them. They are smooth and better on fuel. Both mowers for the same price is a hard decision. I would make sure they both have the same options except for the deck. I never had an issue with the advantage deck. I think it cuts great. But they say the velocity is awsome. Compare both mowers with a new Turf Tiger and see what their differences are. There are options on a velocity plus "newer" Tiger that weren't offere on a advantage "older"Tiger. If I had to choose I would get the 27 liquid cooled velocity plus.
 
#7 ·
I'm buying a turf tiger and my dealer has 2 left over models from last year. Both at the same price($10000, for those who would like to know) One is a 27 kawasaki liquid cooled with the velocity deck. And the other is a 35 vanguard liquid cooled with the advantage deck. If it wasn't for the decks I would get the vanguard hands down. Should I get the better deck or the higher horse engine??? Which would you get and why?
1. I would buy a unit with the Velocity Plus Deck, I would not compromise on
the deck, period.
2. If 27 hp is enough for your purpose the Kawasaki would be a fine choice.
3. If you want some power the 29 dfi Kawasaki is a bit better and the 35
Briggs is much more powerful, but like I said i would chose the deck first.
4. I did check the fuel usage on my 31 hp Briggs Turf Tiger with the Velocity Plus deck
and was getting 1.3 to 1.4 gallons per hour. Which is excellent
considering that the big Briggs will do so much more work per hour if the
cutting is tough. By comparison my Kohler 27 hp uses just under 1.2
gallons per hour and the best 28 Kohlers efi's use about 1 gallon per hour
which is the best I have heard from any gas powered engine so the
big Briggs does very well for it's size.

If you need more than 27 hp then I would wait for a new unit to come out and skip the two left overs. The 29 DFI is the most popular Scag right now. Down here you can buy the new Scag TT with the 29 hp lc Kaw or 35 hp air cooled Briggs for about $10,300 (you may have to bargin a little) the last time I priced one. The big Briggs has much more power than the Kawasaki's in side by side test that I've done. That's my opinion, good luck in your choice. I would get the exact engine and deck combination I wanted even if I had to wait. But theres is nothing wrong with the 27 Kaw. Velocity plus is a must. Yes liquid cooled are supposed to last longer.
 
#8 ·
The 35 Briggs does come with the liquid cooled option. The Briggs model weighs 1445 pounds. The 27 liquid kaw. model weighs 1350. The 27 kawasaki model should be the newer model with the velocity plus deck. The advantage would be an older model. Get the dealer to run the serial numbers and tell you what year the model is. I have compared the 29 dfi to the Briggs and with the fuel consumption I will be purchasing the 29 dfi. I hade the 23 liquid cooled kawasaki an a 52" Turf Tiger with the advantage deck. It had plenty of power. The 23, 27 and 29 are the same block just the fuel systems are different. They both have the same ccs. Also look at the velocity deck and see if it comes wit the "wear pad" on the side of the deck. Scag also started putting the flat free tires on their mowers when they went to the velocity deck. See if they both have this option. Another thing to look for is the adjustable handles. These have been also added. Do they both have the suspension seat? Foldable ROPs? The Briggs is going to have more power hands down. But its also going to use about 1/3 more fuel. I have talked to a few peolple that own the Briggs and my dealer and the only complaint is the fuel consumption. U S Lawns run the Liquid Briggs around here and have great service out of them. The kawasaki is a proven engine. There are alot out there with a bunch of hours on them. They are smooth and better on fuel. Both mowers for the same price is a hard decision. I would make sure they both have the same options except for the deck. I never had an issue with the advantage deck. I think it cuts great. But they say the velocity is awsome. Compare both mowers with a new Turf Tiger and see what their differences are. There are options on a velocity plus "newer" Tiger that weren't offere on a advantage "older"Tiger. If I had to choose I would get the 27 liquid cooled velocity plus.
Thank you very much for your opinion I appreciate it. Now to answer some of your questions. It is indeed the liquid cooled engine. They are both 2006 and I guess one was just bought a few months early because from what I understand that was kind of the cross over year. The vanguard does not have the run flat fronts, but the kawi does. They both have the suspension seat. And the ROPS. I have seen the vanguard and it does have adjustable handles but I have not seen the kawi. But being that the kawi has the newer deck I assume if the vanguard has it the kawi does too. I understand fuel consumption will be different but I'll take it for the extra power. It's just the deck that I'm hung up on. The only thing I don't know is if the kawi comes with the wear pad, because the kawi was still crated. By the way for the one who asked they're both the 61 inch deck. Unfortunately I won't get to test drive these because I want to buy before the season starts so that someone else doesn't get it and I have to spend the extra money on a 2008 model. And here we just got another foot of snow so I don't think I'll be testing anytime soon. Thanks for all the opinions, keep them coming.

Nick
 
#9 ·
The advantage deck machine will have a shorter frame front to back. The liquid cooled briggs is by far the better motor for a heavy machine like that.

We have an '07 27 kohler with the 61 velocity deck and the power isn't where I'd like it. The frame is a little too long (in my opinion) for a 61 inch machine. The cut is decent but not perfect---never throws a clump though. The advantage deck is good in the 61 and 72 inch widths. Also the 27kawi has the same drive system (10.5mph) as our machine---the big block comes with the suspension seat standard and a faster ground speed (12mph). Also $10,000 for the kawi is at or over msrp for the machine---you are not saving any money on it as a leftover. Our air-cooled kohler was $9200 plus tax (that was msrp, our dealer doesn't cut prices for anyone).
 
#10 ·
Check out Bad Boy's AOS Models. The 27hp LC Kawasaki is only $8795, and the 35hp Vanguard Big Block is only $8995. http://www.badboymowers.com/
Saves you a little money, and you get the michigan air-ride seat, 4 wheel indepedent suspension, 15mph, 5 guage steel electronic lift deck with the new air baffles, and by far the strongest frame and deck in the industry. Ohh, and not to mention, a brand spankin new 08 unit!!! That is without any discount, just straight retail!!!

Tire Vehicle Wheel Building Automotive tire


Tire Vehicle Automotive tire Wheel Tread
 
#11 ·
The advantage deck machine will have a shorter frame front to back. The liquid cooled briggs is by far the better motor for a heavy machine like that.

We have an '07 27 kohler with the 61 velocity deck and the power isn't where I'd like it. The frame is a little too long (in my opinion) for a 61 inch machine. The cut is decent but not perfect---never throws a clump though. The advantage deck is good in the 61 and 72 inch widths. Also the 27kawi has the same drive system (10.5mph) as our machine---the big block comes with the suspension seat standard and a faster ground speed (12mph). Also $10,000 for the kawi is at or over msrp for the machine---you are not saving any money on it as a leftover. Our air-cooled kohler was $9200 plus tax (that was msrp, our dealer doesn't cut prices for anyone).
I pretty much agree. Be careful when purchasing left over equipment. I bought my Scag 31 hp Briggs air cooled Turf Tiger with a Velocity Plus deck. It was sold to me as an 06, the dealer definately said it was an 06 and in fact the Velocity deck did not come out till 06 so I assumed he was correct. When in fact the 31 hp Briggs air cooled engine was not even available in 06After noticing in the brochures and web site that my ZTR lacked some of the features of the 06 I called Scag with the serial numbers and found out the body was an 05 and they had attached a Velocity Plus deck to it, put solid front tires on it and a few other things. So I got a mutt (a mix of year models). I called the dealer pretty mad, he stuttered and got ahold of the distributor and we worked things out. They updated the Tractor with folding ROP added the Suspension seat (Both were suppose to be standard for an 06) and a few other things and apologized for the mix up.

Scag did explain that often they ship the tractor with out a deck(attached) and a deck can be added later. This helps especially with the 72" deck that is easier to ship separately. So they had a tractor that was left over put a new deck on it and thought the average guy on the street would never notice. I did notice but I bought the ZTR for a little over $8,000 with the 61" Velocity deck so I was a happy camper after it was over. It would have cost over $10,000 for the newer model with the 35 Briggs. I am extremely happy with my Turf Tiger and it is a great machine. I am spoiled by the shear torque of the Big Briggs (and yes I drove the 29 Kaw). Check very closely such things as the air filled front tires, where the tach is located and if it's digital, if the ROP's fold, etc. They did a lot of changes around 2005 and it's hard to tell what your getting. The easy adjust handles changed around that time also.
 
#12 ·
Check out Bad Boy's AOS Models. The 27hp LC Kawasaki is only $8795, and the 35hp Vanguard Big Block is only $8995. http://www.badboymowers.com/
Saves you a little money, and you get the michigan air-ride seat, 4 wheel indepedent suspension, 15mph, 5 guage steel electronic lift deck with the new air baffles, and by far the strongest frame and deck in the industry. Ohh, and not to mention, a brand spankin new 08 unit!!! That is without any discount, just straight retail!!!
I wish I could check it out but there is no dealer even close to me.
 
#13 ·
I pretty much agree. Be careful when purchasing left over equipment. I bought my Scag 31 hp Briggs air cooled Turf Tiger with a Velocity Plus deck. It was sold to me as an 06, the dealer definately said it was an 06 and in fact the Velocity deck did not come out till 06 so I assumed he was correct. When in fact the 31 hp Briggs air cooled engine was not even available in 06After noticing in the brochures and web site that my ZTR lacked some of the features of the 06 I called Scag with the serial numbers and found out the body was an 05 and they had attached a Velocity Plus deck to it, put solid front tires on it and a few other things. So I got a mutt (a mix of year models). I called the dealer pretty mad, he stuttered and got ahold of the distributor and we worked things out. They updated the Tractor with folding ROP added the Suspension seat (Both were suppose to be standard for an 06) and a few other things and apologized for the mix up.

Scag did explain that often they ship the tractor with out a deck(attached) and a deck can be added later. This helps especially with the 72" deck that is easier to ship separately. So they had a tractor that was left over put a new deck on it and thought the average guy on the street would never notice. I did notice but I bought the ZTR for a little over $8,000 with the 61" Velocity deck so I was a happy camper after it was over. It would have cost over $10,000 for the newer model with the 35 Briggs. I am extremely happy with my Turf Tiger and it is a great machine. I am spoiled by the shear torque of the Big Briggs (and yes I drove the 29 Kaw). Check very closely such things as the air filled front tires, where the tach is located and if it's digital, if the ROP's fold, etc. They did a lot of changes around 2005 and it's hard to tell what your getting. The easy adjust handles changed around that time also.
It does have air filled tires. By tach I'm assuming you mean the hour meter. If that's right than it is digital and it is located on the left side behind the engine. And it does have the suspension seat. That being said, do you think this is an 05 or 06?

See I have alot of hills where I live, like a whole lot. Which is why I'm worried about the lack of power with the 27 kawi.

When I go in there I'm going to tell him that I don't want the old ones and I want to get prices on brand new ones. I'll probably still buy one of the old ones but I don't want him trying to hand of his left overs to me at an inflated price. So I'll make sure he thinks I'm not interested in those ones anymore so he doesn't make up inflated prices for the new ones. Theres also another scag dealer near here that I'll call and ask his price for whatever I decide to buy just to make sure he's not bsing me.

Thanks everyone for all of the insight. If anyone else has anything to add I'd appreciate it.
 
#14 ·
The mower is at least an 06. Get the 2 serial numbers and call Scag or post them here. My dealer showed me his order book for Scags from last year and all his cost went up atleast $300.

It sounds like you are getting greedy. Saving a couple hundred dollars seems like a big deal right know but if you nickel and dime them how do you think they going to respond when your mower is down.

The prices from tacama 200 are really low. The dealer probably needed to get rid of it. Also I think what he's dealer did by swapping parts wasn't cool, but I don't think it's common practice by any means so don't think your dealer did it also.
 
#15 ·
It does have air filled tires. By tach I'm assuming you mean the hour meter. If that's right than it is digital and it is located on the left side behind the engine. And it does have the suspension seat. That being said, do you think this is an 05 or 06?

See I have alot of hills where I live, like a whole lot. Which is why I'm worried about the lack of power with the 27 kawi.

When I go in there I'm going to tell him that I don't want the old ones and I want to get prices on brand new ones. I'll probably still buy one of the old ones but I don't want him trying to hand of his left overs to me at an inflated price. So I'll make sure he thinks I'm not interested in those ones anymore so he doesn't make up inflated prices for the new ones. There's also another scag dealer near here that I'll call and ask his price for whatever I decide to buy just to make sure he's not bsing me.

Thanks everyone for all of the insight. If anyone else has anything to add I'd appreciate it.
When I first looked at my model it had solid front tires and the velocity deck. Everything else looked like an older model regular seat, analog tach on the rear, solid rops and a 31 hp Briggs, no quick adjust handles. So it was made right when they were switching over to the new model with flolable rop's, digital tach, fast adjust handles, and the 35 Briggs.

They agreed to update the seat, rop's, and of course it already had the Velocity plus deck so I was happy after it was all said and done for the price. Newer models with the big Briggs or 29 Kaw should come standard with solid front tires, digital tach, quick adjust handles, fold able rops, etc. Just know what your getting. Good luck. I came out good because of the price, they were trying to get rid of an old one.
 
#16 ·
I wish I could check it out but there is no dealer even close to me.
You can purchase direct from the factory, and they will overnite you parts from the factory. I am sure that if you are really interested the factory rep from that area would bring you a demo by. Prolly worth a phone call anyways. 866-622-3269
 
#17 ·
The mower is at least an 06. Get the 2 serial numbers and call Scag or post them here. My dealer showed me his order book for Scags from last year and all his cost went up atleast $300.

It sounds like you are getting greedy. Saving a couple hundred dollars seems like a big deal right know but if you nickel and dime them how do you think they going to respond when your mower is down.

The prices from tacama 200 are really low. The dealer probably needed to get rid of it. Also I think what he's dealer did by swapping parts wasn't cool, but I don't think it's common practice by any means so don't think your dealer did it also.
The 27kawi is not being discounted---if the dealer is claiming it's cheap then it would appear that he is lying (unless maybe he is including sales tax in the $10,000).
Tacoma really did get a great price on his mower---I am the one who tipped him off that he was getting an older model with a new deck at the time, but I also encouraged him to buy it anyway. It was common practice for scag at the time because the 72inch advantage and the 61inch velocity use the same frame due to the velocity + deck being longer front to back than the advantage decks. Distributors would move the leftover 72inch frames by mounting the new 61's on them and selling them cheaper than the complete new machines. Thats why even on the 07 and 08's you can only get the advantage deck on a 72incher.
I wouldn't encourage anyone to pay $10,000 for a leftover '06 tiger with the 27 kawi. I would at least check the price on a new one---it should be about the same.
 
#18 ·
The 27kawi is not being discounted---if the dealer is claiming it's cheap then it would appear that he is lying (unless maybe he is including sales tax in the $10,000).
Tacoma really did get a great price on his mower---I am the one who tipped him off that he was getting an older model with a new deck at the time, but I also encouraged him to buy it anyway. It was common practice for scag at the time because the 72inch advantage and the 61inch velocity use the same frame due to the velocity + deck being longer front to back than the advantage decks. Distributors would move the leftover 72inch frames by mounting the new 61's on them and selling them cheaper than the complete new machines. Thats why even on the 07 and 08's you can only get the advantage deck on a 72incher.
I wouldn't encourage anyone to pay $10,000 for a leftover '06 tiger with the 27 kawi. I would at least check the price on a new one---it should be about the same.
All this is correct and thanks for you input back then. I remember talking when I was trying to figure out just what I had.

I keep saying tach when I meant hour meter, sorry about that. The newer Scags have the hour meter in the control panel (I think) and not in the round hole near the rear of the machine. I'm not sure when this change took place. So that is one of the things to look for when purchasing the unit. If you get the serial # off of the tractor and call Scag customer service they will tell you when it was manufactured. The hour meter will be rectangle not round. Picture of the newer hour meter below.

I don't think it should have air filled front tires if it is a newer model. The ground speeds are also different for some models. Some of the older ones only ran 10.5 even with the larger engine while the newer models with a big Briggs and Kawasaki should run 12 mph. Not a big deal but they made several changes between 04 and now, it's easy for a dealer to slip an older one in and leave the buyer thinking he's getting one that was manufactured more recently than it actually was. But if you get a good deal it really doesn't matter, just nice to know some of this stuff.

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#20 ·
Check out Bad Boy's AOS Models. The 27hp LC Kawasaki is only $8795, and the 35hp Vanguard Big Block is only $8995. http://www.badboymowers.com/
Saves you a little money, and you get the michigan air-ride seat, 4 wheel indepedent suspension, 15mph, 5 guage steel electronic lift deck with the new air baffles, and by far the strongest frame and deck in the industry. Ohh, and not to mention, a brand spankin new 08 unit!!! That is without any discount, just straight retail!!!
Yes but then you just have a Badboy and not a Scag.
 
#21 ·
All this is correct and thanks for you input back then. I remember talking when I was trying to figure out just what I had.

I keep saying tach when I meant hour meter, sorry about that. The newer Scags have the hour meter in the control panel (I think) and not in the round hole near the rear of the machine. I'm not sure when this change took place. So that is one of the things to look for when purchasing the unit. If you get the serial # off of the tractor and call Scag customer service they will tell you when it was manufactured. The hour meter will be rectangle not round. Picture of the newer hour meter below.

I don't think it should have air filled front tires if it is a newer model. The ground speeds are also different for some models. Some of the older ones only ran 10.5 even with the larger engine while the newer models with a big Briggs and Kawasaki should run 12 mph. Not a big deal but they made several changes between 04 and now, it's easy for a dealer to slip an older one in and leave the buyer thinking he's getting one that was manufactured more recently than it actually was. But if you get a good deal it really doesn't matter, just nice to know some of this stuff.
So you're saying the new ones have a rectangle hour meter. Because I believe that the vanguard one had a round one. But it was digital. And it did have a suspension seat, but it had air filled tires and the advantage deck. I don't recall if it had the folding or stationary rops. I'll be going back there midway through this week to look at it and possibly purchase one. Thanks for all your help.

Nick
 
#22 ·
So you're saying the new ones have a rectangle hour meter. Because I believe that the vanguard one had a round one. But it was digital. And it did have a suspension seat, but it had air filled tires and the advantage deck. I don't recall if it had the folding or stationary rops. I'll be going back there midway through this week to look at it and possibly purchase one. Thanks for all your help.

Nick
With an advantage deck and air filled front tires as well as a liquid cooled vanguard motor you may be looking at a 2005 model year machine.
 
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