29HP Vanguard weak starter.

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by ARN Greencare, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. BigFish

    BigFish LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,807

    WRONG !

    BTW, RIGHT !
     
  2. ed2hess

    ed2hess LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 15,451

    I am surprised the hydro load is significant when in neutral.....and opening the bleed valve reduces load more. What grade of oil in hydro and engine? Maybe I missed something.
     
    Walker56 and BigFish like this.
  3. BigFish

    BigFish LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,807

    Me too.
    Sounds more like a belt routing/idler setup problem to me, from what the OP was sayin.
     
    Walker56 likes this.
  4. Walker56

    Walker56 LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,660

    Older Walkers had a similiar issue. They had come up with a hydro release kit
    Each mfg has their own way of dealing with the additional drag by design.
    92F879D6-F90E-40DC-9FAE-22DB3590F29E.png
     
    hort101 likes this.
  5. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 67

    10w30 in engine, factory fill in the hydros, which is multi viscosity 50wt, (20w50, 15w50, or some synthetic of the sort.) I am surprised too at the load, but I have checked a Turf Tiger with the same 16cc pumps as mine, and it too had a significant amount of load when cold, similar to my Grasshopper. The difference is Kawasaki engineers thought of such issues when they came up with their starting system.

    How would a belt routing or idler set up effect the amount of load/torque presented to the engine? Unless the belt was over 200 inches long, or an idler was about 2" in diameter and flexing the belt around it was difficult, belt/idler system shouldn't make much difference.

    For the most part, alot of mowers have these little 10 or 12cc pumps, and the Vanguard starting system can probably handle such loads. But when you get to larger pumps, the Vanguard is simply too weak for cold weather starting. And after much research, the manufactures are aware of this issue, Grasshopper, Walker, Scag, and some others I can't remember have came up with cold weather starting tools that unload the hydros to aid in starting. So this is not an isolated issue, though rare, it is not isolated.
     
    Walker56 likes this.
  6. ed2hess

    ed2hess LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 15,451

    My engine is Briggs Vanguard......is this the starter that doesn't have sufficient torque? Maybe use engine warmer:D

    Screenshot (79).png
     
  7. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 67

  8. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 67

    Engine warmer will not help. If I have to pull the machine to a leaf clean up job early in the morning, the cold air will cool it back off. I ordered the tool from Grasshopper, it was only five bucks. Thanks for the response...

     
  9. ed2hess

    ed2hess LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 15,451

    Just kidding.....tool opens hydro bleeder? Hard to believe they made it so you needed to buy tool. If you were in the field and and had engine fail it would have been hard pushing the unit with hydro engaged:angry:
     
  10. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 67

    No, it doesn't open the bleeder. It actually releases tension from the drive belt, once you start it, you can remove the tool to reapply the tension to the belt.
     

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