A little help

Discussion in 'Irrigation' started by Without A Drought, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Without A Drought

    Without A Drought LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,086

    I'm doing something wrong.

    i'm trying to locate a length of lateral. I have it about 50' before the location that it's broken. it's a restriction about 3' down between 2 mature trees. I chased the leak for a while this morning and gave up. i'm gonna re-route around it.

    so, i'm trying to find the pipe as close as possible outside the effected area. i tried to send a length of wire through the poly and track that with the 521, but i cannot get a definitive tone/void.

    i know the pipe is insulating the wire from ground. i've tried with 2 strand, twisting them together at the lead, connecting the red and black of the locator to them on the back side and nothing helpful. i tried connecting red to one wire and grounding black, and nothing.

    i know what i'm trying to do is possible, but i'm missing something. Can one of you higher ups lend a hand? my alternative is to re-pipe that section of the zone. (4 heads, about 120', hand dug.) I'd like to avoid that.

    any insight is much appreciated.


    ps. here's the hole i dug chasing the leak. it's a big hole, and i was trying to not cut out the main roots. and it was the helper's 2nd day, so he was less than efficient.

    leak at 43 MBC.jpg
  2. Wet_Boots

    Wet_Boots LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 50,391

    Why hand-dug? No plow?
  3. Without A Drought

    Without A Drought LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,086

    unfortunately not. the new company is newer to irrigation and has done only service in the past. if we have a good snow season, the plow will be on my list of buys for the spring.

    and as far as renting, the shops i've seen around here only have the 255. i would need a 410 or equivalent. and the boss views a 300/day rental fee and not cost effective as he can have a laborer dig for 8/hour.
  4. Wet_Boots

    Wet_Boots LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 50,391

    This is where the old Pipe Piper would shine. Drop in a run of one-inch as slick as you could ever wish.
  5. mitchgo

    mitchgo LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,939

    I would use a Fish tape http://www.amazon.com/GB-Electrical-FTS-50B-Streamline-Winder/dp/B00004WLJE

    The longer the run the more expensive fish tapes are

    With those kind of locates, having a good ground connection is one of the most important things. Use a 3' rebar and pound that sucker in.

    Turn off your locator Transmitter and turn on your wand and listen to what kind of interference your dealing with in this area.

    Spray paint of flag as you go

    Also if you batteries are more then 2 months old and your having trouble locating. Sense there so cheap replace your batteries. I'm always amazed at the signal I get after I've been dealing with bad batteries for a while
  6. Without A Drought

    Without A Drought LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,086

    Batteries, maybe. i'm not sure i see the difference between wire and the fish tape.

    i just can't figure out how to ground it effectivlely, and get the signal to run down the wire/tape in the lateral in order to track it.
  7. Wet_Boots

    Wet_Boots LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 50,391

    Can't you employ a sonde device? Have it beaming out a signal you can track.
  8. bcg

    bcg LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Tx
    Messages: 1,865

    Make sure there is some water in your pipe to provide some conductivity and strip a little bit of the end of the wire you're sticking in the pipe. Make sure that end stays wet and a little puddle in the hole you're starting in that spills into the pipe won't hurt either. Since you have pipe insulating your ground fault, you need to create your own.
  9. 1idejim

    1idejim LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,291

    i'll do this in sections, this is a 3/4" fishtape, "the larger the conductor,the larger the signal". tr-4110 freq 84.4khz, the 521 freq 1748khz

    you have a sheild around the wire with the pipe, not unlike an insulated wire.
    we were 28-30" deep to boot.

    my dad located the fishtape with a magnawand id 1200 to within 4", i missed by 6" with the tr-4110. way to go dad.

    this was the end of the tr 4110 due to collapsed pipe on the effluent and destroyed on the inlet (local handyman doing the ho a favor)

    there are more


  10. Sprinkus

    Sprinkus LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,305

    Here's a nice pipe locator.

    If it was a small pipe, and I was going totally low budget, I would shove a fish tape down it to get the length to the clogged/crushed area. Then I would use witching sticks to get in the general vicinity of it.
    A fish tape and 521 locator may work.
    If the pipe is big enough to get a solenoid through it then shove a solenoid, with two lengths of wire attached it, and use the 521 to find the "hot spot".

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