Advice Seeding

Discussion in 'Turf Renovation' started by wyoming lawn service, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. wyoming lawn service

    wyoming lawn service LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    Last fall I did a complete renovation on my yard. Killed everything with glyphosphate and slit seeded tall fescue blend. Fast forward to now:

    I have several areas that are very thin or bare. I overseeded my yard with finelawn tall fescue. Raked in Scott's top soil in the bare areas with seed.

    Where do I go from here. Questions?

    I know soil temps are still below 50, so....

    1) I plan on putting down Starter fertilizer with Siduron but when should I put it down?
    2) Do I need to applications of siduron 30 days apart OR can I do one application and then a PRE-M 30 days later?

    3) When and what should I use as a post emergant spray....

    Thanks! I know what I decided to do is expensive, but I really wanted to try to get those thin areas fuller.
  2. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    So Wyoming, you're in Ohio?

    Did you have gemination and growth last Fall?

    Was it thick and full then, or did you have those bare spots all along?

    How old did your new seed get b4 the ground froze?

    Sand/clay/loam? Sun/shade? Rich/mineral? and is anything growing in Ohio now?
  3. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,680

    Axe is right. More info needed.
    I don't personally have experience with (Siduron, Tupersan)(Scotts crabgrass control for seeding). But I am thinking you could wait until the daytime high temps reached about 70 before applying the siduron. Assume the crabgrass (if untreated) would germinate at an air temp of about 80. Also take a look at the Growing Degree Days Tracker for Michigan and certain nearby areas. Based on the weather for that year, it gives you an idea when crabgrass should be treated in your area. And poa seed head emergence and more.
  4. wyoming lawn service

    wyoming lawn service LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    I did the full TTTF renovation first last summer I think I planted last week of August. Most areas came in thick except for areas that did not get enough water.

    Most of the TTTF came up nice and thick. One area under one of the bigger trees is thin (I had shoulder surgery and couldn't rake any leafs)

    Back of the property is near some pines and is pretty thin but that area did not get as much water.
  5. wyoming lawn service

    wyoming lawn service LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    I was reading from Denny Mckowen's site and he said you could dormant seed like I have and later apply Ferti-lome's All Season lawn food with Prodiamine. I am trying to figure out if it would be better to use Siduron as soon as I see germination OR apply Ferti-lome All Season lawn food with Prodiamine when the temps reach 70 degees?

    Which of these sounds like the best idea or should I consider a different game plan?
  6. TurnerLawn&Landscape

    TurnerLawn&Landscape LawnSite Member
    Messages: 127

    hey wyoming i'm in northern kentucky.....i would recommend just taking a rake and going over the trouble areas in order to remove any thatch and also loosen up the soil. I am working on the same type of project as we speak. i am currently waiting on soil sample results to see what amendments need to be made. you can put down dormant seed but i think thats a waste of time. i would wait until it warms up. i agree with the starter fertilizer but i would absolutely not put down any pre emerg. and put down the fert at the same time as the seed.
  7. wyoming lawn service

    wyoming lawn service LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    Turner: I raked out all the bad areas put down scotts topsoil w/ starter and already put out my seed.

    One thing I am concerned about obviously is crabgrass. Want some recommendations on what I should put down and when to deal with crabgrass. It was BAD last year. Do not want to deal with that again...
  8. wyoming lawn service

    wyoming lawn service LawnSite Member
    Messages: 108

    Okay read the label for Ferti-lome's All Season Fertilizer with Prodiamine and it states DO NOT apply after overseeding for 60 days OR tow mowings, whichever is greater.

    So I guess I answered my question. Crabgrass according to the label normally germinates around May 10 depending upon weather.

    Looks like I will wait to see what kind of germination I get. Put down the starter with Siduron at a later date and try to time it so I can get 30 days of coverage with one Siduron application and then put down the Prodiamine. Might be a guessing game....aww waiting for grass to grow, FUN!
  9. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,680

    see, reading the label fine print is a good thing. You are correct, in your plan. Crabgrass is a bear. Plan your moves carefully. Sock down the Siduron 7 days in advance of crabgrass germination. Apply the Prodiamine after the second mowing. If weather is normal and nothing goes wrong--you should be fine. Just make sure it doesn't rain on the day you plan to do the work. You sound like a perfectionist--a top engineer for NASA, I am thinking.
  10. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    A label that tells you when CG will germinate... May 10th... wow... We are lucky to get cool season grasses to germinate by the end of May sometimes... Sometimes they'll pop by May 1st...
    Hardly ever get CG here, even in open tilled garden soil, with full sun all day long b4 June...

    You are able to get fert without herbicides, and herbicides without ferts, aren't you?

    Bottom line is if you are scared to grow the grass b4 CG comes in then definately use a grass friendly Pre-m... Itis expensive maybe the only only reason not to use it...

    I guess it works OK, but I never have used it myself... :)

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